Book: Advanced Rider Trainer: The Handbook for Training the Trainer

[Horse]

Advanced Rider Trainer: The Handbook for Training the Trainer

Stephen Tucker & David Rainford

Anyone read it?

[The Spin Doctor]

Nope.

Started writing one ten years ago. Still got the draft somewhere

[Horse]

Nope.

Started writing one ten years ago. Still got the draft somewhere

Probably a lot smaller 'audience' than 10 years ago.

[Yorick]

What's it about?

[The Spin Doctor]

What's it about?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Rider ... 957452330
Probably not your cup of tea

[Scootabout]

But who trains the trainer's trainer? (Sorry, it's one of those days.)

[Horse]

But who trains the trainer's trainer? (Sorry, it's one of those days.)

From personal experience, you get taught as much as you reasonably can, discover even more, look for stuff that others don't. Look for the complementary and contrary.

And that's the easy bit.

The difficult bit is choosing what to ignore. Especially when that is known to be 'right'

[Scootabout]

Horse, you gave a sensible answer to an entirely facetious question. You're slipping

[Horse]

Don't forget, I'm responsible for some of Spin's instructor training!

[The Spin Doctor]

Don't forget, I'm responsible for some of Spin's instructor training!

So you know who to blame...

It was a relief working with Horse and Steve Dixey on their BTEC (the other half of the team) after I'd done some groundwork on a RoSPA BTEC and basically been told to go home and "learn Roadcraft from cover to cover, and make sure you can answer questions on the Highway Code". I got proper teaching scenarios to tackle with Horse plus a rigorous examination of my proof of 'prior learning' - I still have the box file that was delivered in.

The teaching scenarios were decently challenging. Rather amusingly spotted an 'issue' with his foot position on one peg, which I duly mentioned thinking it was part of the role paly only to get a puzzled look and a "nope, that wasn't part of the role play, do I really do that? No-one's ever mentioned it before" comment from Horse.

[Horse]

I blame BMW, for the offset pegs on old R twins and ergonomic angled pegs on the K bikes.

OK, I was riding a Honda, but ...

[The Spin Doctor]

I blame BMW, for the offset pegs on old R twins and ergonomic angled pegs on the K bikes.

OK, I was riding a Honda, but ...

[Horse]

Well, I bought a copy

It's, um, interesting ...

OK, my background might - indeed, must - affect how I read it, since I'm not the target audience. And that's in two ways: first, I have a bit of experience (active delivering 'advanced' training from 1988 - 2008, have been involved with instructor training - see above - and helped write an instructor manual), second, this is really only targeted at UK-style Roadcraft 'advanced' instruction, whereas a lot of my experience and training was outside of those limits.

At 190 pages, there's a fair bit of content. I had presumed (I rarely assume ) that it would be a rehash or interpretation of Roadcraft. It's not, instead the majority of the content is about of how to deliver advanced training. It notes that (more than an assumption) anyone intending to conduct advanced training should already be at a high standard.

However ... where IMHO it falls down is:

1. Although the content is split into sections (5 pages to
list it all), it feels disjointed and jumbled.

2. Some of the writing could have benefited from a good prune and the 'yes, but what do you mean?' challenge.

3. There's technical content which is sometimes not quite right (for counter steering it talks about the front wheel contact patch - good - then goes on to gyroscopic precession- wrong) or really worrying. Have a read of this bit on braking:

20210122_120847.jpg (463.55 KiB) Viewed 1630 times

[Wossname]

Well - that's an exciting bit of new advice. To quote someone else: "who on earth writes this stuff?" Is there an explanation later of that last bit i.e.more context?

[Horse]

Well - that's an exciting bit of new advice. To quote someone else: "who on earth writes this stuff?" Is there an explanation later of that last bit i.e.more context?

Nope, that's as far as it goes.

In terms of 'who'? From Amazon:


In this book, co writers Steve Tucker and David Rainford, share their lifetime of experience and accumulated knowledge to produce the definitive manual for the Advanced Rider Trainer.

...

For Advanced Riding students who can’t ride with Steve or David the training techniques described in the book will help you find a good trainer.

For anyone who is considering becoming a Trainer then this is a must read book and if you are already a Trainer then there may be some insights that will help you perfect your training style.

With a foreword by Bob Smalley, Former head of Motorway and Traffic Policing in the West Midlands and for 25 years Chief Examiner of RoSPA Advanced Drivers and Riders

Thoughtfully laid out and filled with diagrams, photographs, illustrations, useful check lists and charts this is the ultimate handbook for the Advanced Driver Trainer.

Review
Advanced Rider Training has achieved what I believe it set out to do; that is to compliment Motorcycle Roadcraft. It provides a comprehensive insight into how, when, what and why to teach and learn the "ART" of motorcycle riding. The authors Steve and David have said it how it is based on their love of and lives spent riding bikes. Whether an experienced trainer or rider or just starting out this comprehensive handbook oozes knowledge and best practice; Give it a read; there is much to learn, and who knows, it may help you when you most need it. Bob Smalley Former Chief Examiner of RoSPA Advanced Drivers and Riders.

About the Author
Steve Tucker has been riding motor bikes for 40 years. As a UK Traffic Police Officer he was trained in advanced riding and driving skills. Riding a police motor bike in operational situations required a tremendous amount of expertise few riders can ever experience or achieve. Riding a motorbike for pleasure or commuting also requires an exceptional level of skill. Sadly, a large number of crash scenes he attended, where a biker was involved, were generally caused by rider error. When he retired from the Police he used his knowledge and expertise of advanced riding and driving techniques to operate his own business in the UK Driver Training Industry. He achieved an Approved Driving Instructor, Grade 6 (the highest qualification obtainable) and a BTEC Progressive Advanced Driving Instructor at a time when the Industry was only just recognising the need to ensure Instructors were suitably qualified to provide expert training. He now lives in Cyprus where the weather favours riders and provides them with mile after mile of great roads to ride. Riding motorbikes is a passion of Steve's and so is training. So it made a lot of sense to combine both passions and offer advanced rider training to the motorcyclists of Cyprus. Steve is an Advanced Riding Tutor and an Advanced Riding Examiner for (Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA) UK, and the training that he provides is based on Police Motor Cycle Roadcraft. Many riders including the Cyprus National Police and Sovereign Base Area Police Officers have benefited from advanced rider training with him. Advanced Rider Trainer is his first book on the subject.

David Rainford is an Advanced Motorcycle Rider with both the Institute of Advanced Motorists qualification and a RoSPA Gold Award. He is also a RoSPA qualified Advanced Rider Tutor. Now living in Cyprus after a career in engineering design and consultancy, David holds a bachelor degree in Aeronautical Engineering and a Diploma in Company Direction. He is a Chartered Mechanical Engineer and Commercial Drone Pilot. However first and foremost he is a real world biker, with a few lessons he learned the hard way. From falling off his first bike, a Honda C50 step-through, after an Emerson Lake & Palmer concert in 1971 to abusing a Ducati 900SS to cut a deer in half in 2000, David has realized that motorcycle safety comes from proper training and not just the experiences which did not kill or incapacitate the rider. David brings to the book his knowledge of a systematic approach to engineering and management problem solving and considerable experience of staff appraisal, development and training.

[The Spin Doctor]

I rather get the feeling that the authors wouldn't enjoy reading 'Survival SKILLS'

[Trinity765]

(for counter steering it talks about the front wheel contact patch - good - then goes on to gyroscopic precession- wrong)

I'm confused. I just got my head around the torque induced procession phenomenon and it doesn't explain counter steering?

FWIW I won't be reading the book.

[Trinity765]

It's contact patch and circumference?

[Horse]

I can only tell what to do and give you a basic explanation of why it works.

Action
- To get the bike going left, it must lean left.
- To get the bike leaning left you must point the front wheel to the right. [Either press forward on the side that you want to turn, or pull back on the opposite side. You can either do this as a conscious, arms only, action, or as a consequence of shoulder movement]
- The quicker you want to lean (and so turn), the quicker you must press.
- The further you want to lean, the longer you hold the pressure.
- When you have achieved the lean you want, release the pressure and let the bars move - the front wheel will turn 'into' the turn.

Why
- Going in a straight line, the bike's wheels are (roughly*) following a straight line.
- Turning the bars means that the front wheel will want to head off in a different direction, but all of your momentum is still going forwards.
- If, for example, you steered the wheel to the right, that momentum will be to the left of it, pulling it over that way.
- When you release the pressure, the front wheel will turn into the turn, so both wheels roughly follow the same curved path.

* actually it's a steady series of weaves. As the bike 'falls' left, the front wheel turns left into it, that then initiates a slight right lean, which ... Not sure? Right in a straight line, hold the bars as straight ahead as possible, then make your arms rigid. See what happens. Briefly


Re precession, experiments have been done with a contra-rotating 'paired' wheel, just off the ground. No noticeable difference in steering.




Edit: it's not primarily to do with steering geometry either. Tony Foale he did extensive research on this.

https://motochassis.com/articles/experi ... -geometry/

[Horse]

And something else ... The BMW C1 is great for discussing different steering 'methods':
- it has no footrests to 'weight'
- it has no petrol tank to apply pressure against with your knees
- the rider is seatbelted in, so no body movement

That only leaves the bars and counter steering. In fact, either the rider's manual or dealer information specifically noted that riders should be taught it.