Sondors Metacycle

[The Spin Doctor]

Even with the throttle pinned it wouldn't draw much power most of the time. Once up to speed it only needs to use enough power to counteract wind resistance*, I'm not sure what the speed on a bike is where wind resistance becomes a big issue.

* Yes I'm ignoring stuff like hills and traffic lights. Would be nice if it has regenerative charging but I know in ebikes it doesn't do much due to the lack of weight so they may not have bothered.

Very roughly... 10 hp gets you to 60 mph
30 hp gets 100 mph
60 hp gets 125 mph
90 hp gets 140 mph

Aerodynamics being equal...

[Mr. Dazzle]

This bike has 14.5kW/~19bhp 'over rated' which is like turning the boost up, it can do it for a bit but will overheat after a while.

Then it has 8kW/~11bhp continuous. Enough to maybe do 70-80mph, but only for about half an hour based on the battery size.

So from that you can see to get 80 miles you'll have to be doing much less.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah that basically. Its an electric moped.

Its cheap cause the battery is small and short ranged. Just as well with that seat really.

[Dodgy69]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223933735284

[Horse]

Although they claim:

20210118_110722.jpg (62.79 KiB) Viewed 1418 times

[Mr. Dazzle]

It probably is, compared to the tiny racing saddle on the fixy bicycles of their target market.

[Rockburner]

Yeah that basically. Its an electric moped.

Its cheap cause the battery is small and short ranged. Just as well with that seat really.

Essentially that's how it's being sold, as I understand it, just as a 'motorcycle' for short range commuting at a reasonable price, not a moped.

[The Spin Doctor]

Although they claim:

20210118_110722.jpg

They can claim what they like. It doesn't make it true.

[The Spin Doctor]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223933735284

For some inexplicable reason most of these electric motorised bicycles try too hard to look like something very bland with an internal combustion engine. I can't see any reason why I'd buy that instead of a KTM200.

The Sondors at least looks like it's trying to differentiate itself.

Why do you need to differentiate yourself?

After all, the guy who designed the Ducati Monster (which has just sold the 350,000 model) said all you need "is a saddle, engine, two wheels, handlebars and a tank to fill with fuel". Substitute battery for tank, and nothing's changed. People will buy an electric bike BECAUSE it's electric, not because it looks different, and one of the biggest problems designers of electric bikes are facing is persuading the existing markets to take them up.

Interestingly, the designers of electric BIcycles are very much sticking with conventional designs and the result is that they are selling well.

Designers of some electric MOTORcycles seem to be caught in a "must not look like a motorbike' trap, when I suspect it's the off-the-wall styling that will condemn them to failure. I don't think it's any coincidence that Zero are selling reasonably well.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I think they need to look just different enough that they are obviously "a bit futuristic" without being properly odd ball. The early adopters of these vehicles are unlikely to be traditionalists are they?

Tesla and BMW both got it pretty spot on IMO. Their electric vehciles look different and 'futuristic' without being full space cadet.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Even with the throttle pinned it wouldn't draw much power most of the time. Once up to speed it only needs to use enough power to counteract wind resistance*, I'm not sure what the speed on a bike is where wind resistance becomes a big issue.

* Yes I'm ignoring stuff like hills and traffic lights. Would be nice if it has regenerative charging but I know in ebikes it doesn't do much due to the lack of weight so they may not have bothered.

Very roughly... 10 hp gets you to 60 mph
30 hp gets 100 mph
60 hp gets 125 mph
90 hp gets 140 mph

Aerodynamics being equal...

Surely bhp is a bit meaningless with an electric bike as it's a calculation based on torque x rpm, a torque figure would be a lot more use as you can gear the motor however you want.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Other way around, bhp is what makes you go. Power is power is power, you can't change it with gearing (other than to lose some in friction).

So for example I can have a low torque motor which spins very fast, or I can have a high torque motor which spins very slow, but they'll both be the same power. I can then gear them to run at the speed I actually need. The choice of which to have is informed by a whole myriad of things, as you might expect.

Having high torque is no use without power. You can generate huge torques with just a broom handle, but you can't make much power 'cause you can't move it fast enough. Gears won't help you.

We all get used to the idea of 'torquey motors' or 'powerful' ones but that's not really much to do with power/torque/speed fundamentally and much more to do with the way piston engines make power. We get accustomed to the idea of 'torquey' engines not being all about power, but that's a limitation not a benefit. Electric motors are not so handicapped.

[The Spin Doctor]

Surely bhp is a bit meaningless with an electric bike as it's a calculation based on torque x rpm, a torque figure would be a lot more use as you can gear the motor however you want.

Well, I think you'll find that electric motors deliver max torque at zero revs, then drop off as they spin up. That's one reason the Zeros have pretty good drive off the line for a relatively 'low-powered' bike, but run out of speed relatively rapidly.

But hp is what gives you the 'push' against wind resistance.

[The Spin Doctor]

We all get used to the idea of 'torquey motors' or 'powerful' ones but that's not really much to do with power/torque/speed fundamentally and much more to do with the way piston engines make power. We get accustomed to the idea of 'torquey' engines not being all about power, but that's a limitation not a benefit. Electric motors are not so handicapped.

When people talk about needing a 'powerful' motor to give them good rates of acceleration, I always refer them back to an RD250LC, and ask them if they can accelerate any faster than a wheelie!

[demographic]

We all get used to the idea of 'torquey motors' or 'powerful' ones but that's not really much to do with power/torque/speed fundamentally and much more to do with the way piston engines make power. We get accustomed to the idea of 'torquey' engines not being all about power, but that's a limitation not a benefit. Electric motors are not so handicapped.

When people talk about needing a 'powerful' motor to give them good rates of acceleration, I always refer them back to an RD250LC, and ask them if they can accelerate any faster than a wheelie!

Could lean forward a bit.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

When people talk about needing a 'powerful' motor to give them good rates of acceleration, I always refer them back to an RD250LC, and ask them if they can accelerate any faster than a wheelie!

You must have had a better 250LC than the one I had, mine needed deliberate provocation to wheelie, though I had a YZ125 that would wheelie in low gears, I suspect this was due to a combination of low weight, power delivery and rearward weight distribution.

[The Spin Doctor]

You must have had a better 250LC than the one I had, mine needed deliberate provocation to wheelie, though I had a YZ125 that would wheelie in low gears, I suspect this was due to a combination of low weight, power delivery and rearward weight distribution.

The one I borrowed wheelied as it hit the power band in 1st. I was just filtering between two taxis up the Tottenham Court Road at the time!

I don't know if the gearing had been lowered, but it had a pair of spannies on it - Gibsons, I think. The owner said they made the power come in with a bit of a bang. He wasn't wrong.

My AR80 used to wheelie in 1st and 2nd as it hit the powerband. No fannying about with the clutch, it would just lift the front