Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

[Docca]

@docca - imho some of the NHS’ existing problems comes from devolution. Ie one trust does X another does Y and another does V. The idea of letting each trust go each own way would scare the shit out of me. I already see enough variation in systems owing to trust differences. If we take one area I know well call and dispatch for 9’s.

Each trust does its own thing, they all buy independently, and then all bespoke the systems... this has a whole raft of implications, from huge overbearing costs, to interoperability issues, right down to the inability to update to modern OS in a supported manner.

There is a current hot potato of security across NHS systems which is costing an absolute fortune, and each trust is going its own way to meet the criteria, most of which simply cannot be done, let alone in the timescales requested. Thus they are now about to blow a fortune with half measure and work arounds.

I’m not sure what the solution is,but I find it hard to see more devotional is the answer. What it takes to jab someone in Norwich is no different to what it takes to jab someone in London....

That’s not devolved system care though buddy, that’s just shit. There are only really two devolved health systems in England and they are at the ICS level: Manchester and one other.

All the nonsense that gets mandated from NHS England? The standards that you have to adhere to that cannot be universally applied but you still struggle to make things work ( hitting the target, missing the point) - that’s what you walk away from. You set your own metronome.

With the creation of Primary care networks and the aforementioned integrated care systems it becomes unnecessarily complicated, add to the mix integrated care partnerships and local health care record systems and it’s a stupid mess.

NHS cannot in good faith understand the complexities of all the complex care setups we have in this country, so as soon as more and more Trusts walk away from their grip, the better.

When people refer to ‘middle management’ or NHS management being shit in the NHS, it’s almost certainly because you have jobsworths that don’t want to rock the board-boat and by the time they get into senior roles, they’ve already been indoctrinated.

As for the NHS having blood on their hands if they fail to deliver; as usual, the layers are more complex than empty grandstand statements. The logistics of getting vaccines to where they need to be, including cold store where appropriate etc.

One of the biggest hurdles however will be ensuring you are giving the vaccine to the right person. It is by no means as straightforward as you think. It starts with making sure your contact details are up to date because your details will be pulled from the national SPINE in most cases. That pulls data from your GP system and if your address is different, or your phone number ...then you could miss out.

Then there is ensuring you’ve kept account of who has had what. You could argue that we’d just use the NHS number as the unique identifier and cross match against some otter details - but not everyone has an NHS number. Then there are those with known-as names and so on.

If I were to take one tip away to prepare it would be to check your GP details are correct. You can likely do this online.

[Docca]

Oh and:

[Gedge]

@docca - imho some of the NHS’ existing problems comes from devolution. Ie one trust does X another does Y and another does V. The idea of letting each trust go each own way would scare the shit out of me. I already see enough variation in systems owing to trust differences. If we take one area I know well call and dispatch for 9’s.

Each trust does its own thing, they all buy independently, and then all bespoke the systems... this has a whole raft of implications, from huge overbearing costs, to interoperability issues, right down to the inability to update to modern OS in a supported manner.

There is a current hot potato of security across NHS systems which is costing an absolute fortune, and each trust is going its own way to meet the criteria, most of which simply cannot be done, let alone in the timescales requested. Thus they are now about to blow a fortune with half measure and work arounds.

I’m not sure what the solution is,but I find it hard to see more devotional is the answer. What it takes to jab someone in Norwich is no different to what it takes to jab someone in London....

That’s not devolved system care though buddy, that’s just shit. There are only really two devolved health systems in England and they are at the ICS level: Manchester and one other.

All the nonsense that gets mandated from NHS England? The standards that you have to adhere to that cannot be universally applied but you still struggle to make things work ( hitting the target, missing the point) - that’s what you walk away from. You set your own metronome.

With the creation of Primary care networks and the aforementioned integrated care systems it becomes unnecessarily complicated, add to the mix integrated care partnerships and local health care record systems and it’s a stupid mess.

NHS cannot in good faith understand the complexities of all the complex care setups we have in this country, so as soon as more and more Trusts walk away from their grip, the better.

When people refer to ‘middle management’ or NHS management being shit in the NHS, it’s almost certainly because you have jobsworths that don’t want to rock the board-boat and by the time they get into senior roles, they’ve already been indoctrinated.

As for the NHS having blood on their hands if they fail to deliver; as usual, the layers are more complex than empty grandstand statements. The logistics of getting vaccines to where they need to be, including cold store where appropriate etc.

One of the biggest hurdles however will be ensuring you are giving the vaccine to the right person. It is by no means as straightforward as you think. It starts with making sure your contact details are up to date because your details will be pulled from the national SPINE in most cases. That pulls data from your GP system and if your address is different, or your phone number ...then you could miss out.

Then there is ensuring you’ve kept account of who has had what. You could argue that we’d just use the NHS number as the unique identifier and cross match against some otter details - but not everyone has an NHS number. Then there are those with known-as names and so on.

If I were to take one tip away to prepare it would be to check your GP details are correct. You can likely do this online.

Not completely off topic, but any idea why they decided on individual NHS Numbers instead of using National Insurance number which most people already have and best of all can quote ( except my wife who can’t remember it from one day to the next ) .... another seemingly pointless bit of bureaucracy ?

[Horse]

2 days training? Big deal, that sounds like 2 (more) days delay to me. Just do it and get on with it.

The training at my trust is 4.5 hours - took me less (I'm up to date with resus and radicalisation etc)
If it's someone outside the job is going to do it then the prob seems to be access to the training according to retired non working nurses .

My info came via St John Ambulance, was sent to me as a qualified holder of a 'first aid at work' certificate (4 days initial training, requal 2 days every 3 years), so have a fair idea on resus.

But still 21.5 hours additional.

[Wreckless Rat]

@Docca i guess the bit the average layman can’t grasp is what is the difference between this and the yearly mass flu jab?

Yes it’s bigger, but surely the safeguards are the same - as you know I’m not a med so perhaps miss the nuances. PHE is a joke, imho it’s not fit for purpose, it’s full of the non boat rocking “climbers” you mention.

I once applied for a permy role in the NHS and was already doing the job, and doing a pretty good job of it. I was bypassed for “a safe pair of hands that won’t rock the boat”. The very words used.

The trouble was, the boat needed rocking, the dept was full of dead wood, personal infighting, and chunks of the dept either simply refusing to work with other members of staff or, and I kid you not, refusing to do their work because they didn’t like the room they were in.

NPfIT failed in some respects (huge chunks) because of trusts dealing with stuff differently and refusing to yield.

One trust would collect dick length the other would collect dick girth, and neither could chop off the cock unless they had the data they wanted (facetious made up example but you get the gist), etc etc etc.

I feel for the real workers in the NHS as they are hamstrung by too many middle management, wanting shit data that they only manipulate to suit the latest performance indicators.

[Horse]

I feel for the real workers in the NHS as they are hamstrung by too many middle management, wanting shit data that they only manipulate to suit the latest performance indicators.

As always, what gets measured gets done. Aren't arbitary 'targets' great?

[Mr. Dazzle]

I note you have to have training in spotting radicalisation to be able to give this vaccine.

Clearly a slip up there, I doubt they meant to reveal the mind control aspects so soon.

[Wreckless Rat]

Again, I have no idea wtf radicalisation has to do with covid jabs? Perhaps someone cleverer can explain?

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm guessing its either not radicalisation in the sense I'm thinking, or its a copy/paste of the basic requirements for all public sector jobs at a certain level/role.

[Mussels]

Is it possible that the NHS has had the volunteer idea forced on it and don't really want them involved?
I'm sure if they really did want them the barriers wouldn't be so high.

[Wreckless Rat]

If you go in with a Semtex vest, they refuse to give you the jab as it’s a waste?

[Cousin Jack]

Not completely off topic, but any idea why they decided on individual NHS Numbers instead of using National Insurance number which most people already have and best of all can quote ( except my wife who can’t remember it from one day to the next ) .... another seemingly pointless bit of bureaucracy ?

NIH syndrome.

Not Invented Here.

[Mr. Dazzle]

You don't get a national insurance number until you're old enough to work for one.

A single Citizen ID (optionally barcoded on your forehead) for all government business would make more sense.

[irie]

Oh and:

That is plain fucking ridiculous.

[Gedge]

You don't get a national insurance number until you're old enough to work for one.

A single Citizen ID (optionally barcoded on your forehead) for all government business would make more sense.

It’s only procedural that you get one when you start working ..it could as easily be issued at Birth or when granted residency ? And it’s a well established system that could also have been used to record things like driving entitlements and passport details ...seems everybody has to have their own system ...thankfully Bill Gates vaccine microchip will make all this obsolete

[Noggin]

You don't get a national insurance number until you're old enough to work for one.

A single Citizen ID (optionally barcoded on your forehead) for all government business would make more sense.

It’s only procedural that you get one when you start working ..it could as easily be issued at Birth or when granted residency ? And it’s a well established system that could also have been used to record things like driving entitlements and passport details ...seems everybody has to have their own system ...thankfully Bill Gates vaccine microchip will make all this obsolete

But, don't the 'Brits' object when anyone mentions an ID card that would be able to link all this together??

Here access to the health system is based on having a Carte Vitale. I'd guess that when we get told to go for the vaccine, it'll be registered on the CV for the doctor etc to see in the future!!

They do have an ID card as well - saves needing a passport for travelling within mainland EU (pretty sure they still needed a passport for going to the UK!)

[wheelnut]

That is plain fucking ridiculous.

I realise I’m probably in a group of 1 here, but I don’t think that is particularly ridiculous, certainly for someone that doesn’t have a current professional registration.

I can’t imagine it taking more than a couple of hours to wade through.

[asmethurst99]

I used radicalisation as an example - All NHS staff at a certain level need to have core mandatory training which is renewed every year to 3 years .
It's role appropriate so I do stuff like child protection and basic life support/resus as well as radicalisation and protecting the vulnerable adult and information governance - fire safety (we used to spend an afternoon messing about with fire extinguishers but that's ended but at least it stops people blocking exits and they know which bottle to use)
As I said these are role appropriate so if I was still an ITU nurse then I'd do slightly different ones .
I use the child protection adult vulnerability stuff to inform my practice fairly often and it hopefully means that in circumstances such as these then maybe in the future people Will know when to act and maybe just maybe we wont have the disasters we have had in the past around CP .As for the radicalisation module IDK.
These make up Core Mandatory Training and used to be seen as a ball ache - in the last few years however the CQC inspections pick up on these -added to which they are much easier to check with the new Electronic staff record system you can now tell exactly where you are with them.
I doubt any trust wants any Tom Dick or Harriett who is not up to date administering meds under their umbrella without making sure they are compliant with the stuff I mentioned above - whether you think that's a good or bad thing is up to you
Sorry for the rambling reply
I'm a Nurse Specialist and work in the the community in a niche job

[Mr. Dazzle]

I can see why those things would be relevant to a full time employee. Thats what I was referring to when I said it's probably a copy/paste.

Thing is, the people volunteering to vaccinate aren't looking for a job in the NHS generally. They want to turn up, jab some people and then go home.

[slowsider]

It's an emergency now, Maureen, but the barristers who will pick over the mistakes afterwards won't be in any rush

Oh and: