Are you changing your biking wants/needs over time as technology progresses? or stuck in a time warp ?

[Skub]

I passed my test on one of those, borrowed from a mate because my Honda CB250 wouldn't start. I progressed to a T500, which also had a kickstart on the left.

I also had a CZ250 which had a gear lever which doubled as a kickstart. You had to push it inwards and then swing the lever upwards, kick it to start and then swing it back to its gear lever position. Try doing that when you've stalled at a set of traffic lights.

My GS750 has a kickstart and an electric start. The kickstart fouls the modified rearsets so I've removed it, by the mid 70s Japanese starter motors were pretty reliable, I think kickstarts were only fitted for those who were stuck in a time warp back then and didn't trust these new fangled electrical contraptions. If you have any experience of the "electrically assisted starting" fitted to Norton Commandos you can understand their scepticism

I remember the CZ 250 and 175 well. Farm implements were better appointed.

On my R90S the kickstart was on the left and operated at 90 degrees from a normal kickstart. Best have it on the stand for that trick.

[demographic]

Go big or go home;

I usually get my Batman to start my Sopwith Camel though.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Found this brilliant diagram when looking for that pic.

[ZRX61]

Pah, I've hand cranked a single cylinder diesel engined dumper.

Not joking, I have. Just a glorified Lister engine mind but it still counts.

Oh, and a train... it was a very small train on the local peat moss but it was a train all the same.

I've hand cranked Kaw Z1's, piece of piss.

[ZRX61]

My 2018 Husky has a kickstarter. Once tried and not a chance

These days I not only lack the testicular fortitude to ride an '86 KX500, I would probably stroke out trying to start one...

[Druid]

The first 500 twins didn't have folding pegs. Mate raced one at Brands & managed to crash on two consecutive laps at Druids by digging the right peg into the tarmac.

I had forgotten how many times I had to straighten the footpegs on mine after falling off yet again

[Bigjawa]

I passed my test on one of those, borrowed from a mate because my Honda CB250 wouldn't start. I progressed to a T500, which also had a kickstart on the left.

I also had a CZ250 which had a gear lever which doubled as a kickstart. You had to push it inwards and then swing the lever upwards, kick it to start and then swing it back to its gear lever position. Try doing that when you've stalled at a set of traffic lights.

My GS750 has a kickstart and an electric start. The kickstart fouls the modified rearsets so I've removed it, by the mid 70s Japanese starter motors were pretty reliable, I think kickstarts were only fitted for those who were stuck in a time warp back then and didn't trust these new fangled electrical contraptions. If you have any experience of the "electrically assisted starting" fitted to Norton Commandos you can understand their scepticism

I remember the CZ 250 and 175 well. Farm implements were better appointed.

On my R90S the kickstart was on the left and operated at 90 degrees from a normal kickstart. Best have it on the stand for that trick.

Jawa 350s not only had the gear lever/kickstart/clutch jobbie, but had an extra neutral for coasting between 3rd and 4th.

[Yorick]

I passed my test on one of those, borrowed from a mate because my Honda CB250 wouldn't start. I progressed to a T500, which also had a kickstart on the left.

I also had a CZ250 which had a gear lever which doubled as a kickstart. You had to push it inwards and then swing the lever upwards, kick it to start and then swing it back to its gear lever position. Try doing that when you've stalled at a set of traffic lights.

My GS750 has a kickstart and an electric start. The kickstart fouls the modified rearsets so I've removed it, by the mid 70s Japanese starter motors were pretty reliable, I think kickstarts were only fitted for those who were stuck in a time warp back then and didn't trust these new fangled electrical contraptions. If you have any experience of the "electrically assisted starting" fitted to Norton Commandos you can understand their scepticism

I remember the CZ 250 and 175 well. Farm implements were better appointed.

On my R90S the kickstart was on the left and operated at 90 degrees from a normal kickstart. Best have it on the stand for that trick.

Jawa 350s not only had the gear lever/kickstart/clutch jobbie, but had an extra neutral for coasting between 3rd and 4th.

IIRC, on the early RD250s, you could change straight from 6th to first

[Mr. Dazzle]

C90's can do that.

Well not 6th The gears go all the way around infinitely. 1-N-2-3-1-N-2-3- etc.

Or at least, the ones I rode for Domino's in about 2000 could. Dunno if they're supposed to.

[Whysub]

I'd hate to have any of the bikes from my yoof. All I remember is repairing them in the cold and wet and philips head screws and hex head screws made of cheese.

One of those things is when I work on badly maintained older bikes I don't shear or damage fastener heads.

The only conclusion I can come to is that fasteners made from cheesium improve with age.

The screw heads were fine- it's just you were using the wrong screwdrivers. Japanese bikes up to the early 80's used Japanese Industry Screws (JIS) that were cross heads, but they were easily chewed up by using a Phillips cross head screwdriver in them.

Whilst my mates were knackering screwheads to convert the "cheese headed screws" to Allen bolts, they would not believe that the proper screwdriver would have saved them time, money and a lot of swearing. Never chewed a head on a screw once I bought my first three JIS screwdrivers.

[cheb]

Does pull cord starting a 115hp outboard count for anything?

[Yorick]

I'd hate to have any of the bikes from my yoof. All I remember is repairing them in the cold and wet and philips head screws and hex head screws made of cheese.

One of those things is when I work on badly maintained older bikes I don't shear or damage fastener heads.

The only conclusion I can come to is that fasteners made from cheesium improve with age.

The screw heads were fine- it's just you were using the wrong screwdrivers. Japanese bikes up to the early 80's used Japanese Industry Screws (JIS) that were cross heads, but they were easily chewed up by using a Phillips cross head screwdriver in them.

Whilst my mates were knackering screwheads to convert the "cheese headed screws" to Allen bolts, they would not believe that the proper screwdriver would have saved them time, money and a lot of swearing. Never chewed a head on a screw once I bought my first three JIS screwdrivers.

I soon learned the secret. All the screws on my GT185 ( and GT750) had a little flat slot hammered into the side of the head

And I did use the impact driver a helluva lot

[Mr. Dazzle]

If it makes you feel better - Phillips heads (and probably JIS heads) are specifically designed to round off

They're a really old design, from back when 'they' first started using automatic kit to build stuff. The Phillips head is designed to slip above a certain torque so you don't break the bolt. It comes from a time when machine control wasn't that good.

Torx heads on the other hand are much newer and come from a time when machine control was much better (i.e. computerised). In that case you want a bolt head that can transmit a lot of torque without slipping so you can do them up accurately with robots and also use smaller bolts.

[Yorick]

C90's can do that.

Well not 6th The gears go all the way around infinitely. 1-N-2-3-1-N-2-3- etc.

Or at least, the ones I rode for Domino's in about 2000 could. Dunno if they're supposed to.

The Yamahas weren't supposed to either

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Early RD250s and 350s had 6 gears, but for the UK market the change into 6th was prevented by a stop on the gear selector drum, nearly everyone removed this stop to get the 6th gear, but this also meant you could change from 1st to 6th, or from 6th to 1st, which is a bit more scary.

Going to the point about screws being crap on old bikes, IME all of the air cooled Japanese engines are made of pretty poor metal, the threads strip quite easily, whether they were this bad new I don't know, it could just be a series of ham fisted idiots working on them.

The 250 and 350 LCs were a step up in quality compared to other Japanese bikes of the time, the wiring is better quality and the bikes are better out together. The FZ750 was another big jump forward, both in design and build quality, Honda didn't catch up until the CBR600, Suzuki even later with the SRAD GSXR750, and I lost interest in modern bikes before Kawasaki built a bike with an inclined engine.

[Yorick]

If it makes you feel better - Phillips heads (and probably JIS heads) are specifically designed to round off

They're a really old design, from back when 'they' first started using automatic kit to build stuff. The Phillips head is designed to slip above a certain torque so you don't break the bolt. It comes from a time when machine control wasn't that good.

Torx heads on the other hand are much newer and come from a time when machine control was much better (i.e. computerised). In that case you want a bolt head that can transmit a lot of torque without slipping so you can do them up accurately with robots and also use smaller bolts.

You weren't around in the 70s. They were just shite.

[Yorick]

Early RD250s and 350s had 6 gears, but for the UK market the change into 6th was prevented by a stop on the gear selector drum, nearly everyone removed this stop to get the 6th gear, but this also meant you could change from 1st to 6th, or from 6th to 1st, which is a bit more scary.

Ed Zackerley

[Bigyin]

Judging by the overpowering smell of the 70's and 80's this thread has turned into dunno if this is worth a look for some. I havent watched it in full, just skimmed through and remembered a lot of the bikes from my 80's yoof

[Bigjawa]

Early RD250s and 350s had 6 gears, but for the UK market the change into 6th was prevented by a stop on the gear selector drum, nearly everyone removed this stop to get the 6th gear, but this also meant you could change from 1st to 6th, or from 6th to 1st, which is a bit more scary.

Going to the point about screws being crap on old bikes, IME all of the air cooled Japanese engines are made of pretty poor metal, the threads strip quite easily, whether they were this bad new I don't know, it could just be a series of ham fisted idiots working on them.

The 250 and 350 LCs were a step up in quality compared to other Japanese bikes of the time, the wiring is better quality and the bikes are better out together. The FZ750 was another big jump forward, both in design and build quality, Honda didn't catch up until the CBR600, Suzuki even later with the SRAD GSXR750, and I lost interest in modern bikes before Kawasaki built a bike with an inclined engine.

ZX9 is an inclined engine, not as far as an R1 but it uses downdrafts

[mangocrazy]

The 250 and 350 LCs were a step up in quality compared to other Japanese bikes of the time, the wiring is better quality and the bikes are better out together. The FZ750 was another big jump forward, both in design and build quality, Honda didn't catch up until the CBR600, Suzuki even later with the SRAD GSXR750, and I lost interest in modern bikes before Kawasaki built a bike with an inclined engine.

I'd also put a mention in for the original Honda VFR750s (the ones with the conventional swingarm). The build quality on those was exceptional, as was the fit and finish. I bought an FK (1989) model and used it to commute between Stafford and Solihull in all weathers except snow and heavy frost, and when I PX'd it with 80k on the clock in 6 years the paintwork was still shiny, the fasteners hadn't turned furry and the motor was still as fit as a butcher's dog.