I don't think anyone, whether in No 10 or general public (caveat - who has actually thought about it) thinks that immunisation of the entire country is going to be swift. Indeed, politicians have been strenuously making the point that restrictions and care will be necessary for a long time.
The government has stated that the majority of the 25 million vulnerable/at risk people already prioritised will be immunised by March/April.
Speaking earlier with a friend who's a senior manager at one of the largest NHS trusts outside of London and I asked him for his view on achieving this publicly stated target and he started typing a long and detailed reply and then gave up and typed "In summary: bollocks".
well yes... likely complete bollox.. But that's what they're trying to do. The reality is likely to be very different. But what do you suggest ? You can't magically just make it happend because you want to. I expect all countries will miss targets and deadlines, not just ours.
I'm suggesting this government tell the truth for once. I'm suggesting this government stop making grandiose statements that don't stand up to even the lightest of scrutiny. I'm suggesting the government gets real and starts treating people like adults. I'm suggesting this government sets a consistent and honest tone in its communications. I'm suggesting this government takes responsibility for its actions; successes and failures.
I run a business, as I'm sure do many on here, and I can't and don't hide from making a decision and communicating it and then accepting the plaudits if it was right or the brickbats if it was wrong. I'd expect nothing less from my, supposed, elders and betters...
millemille wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm suggesting this government tell the truth for once. I'm suggesting this government stop making grandiose statements that don't stand up to even the lightest of scrutiny. I'm suggesting the government gets real and starts treating people like adults. I'm suggesting this government sets a consistent and honest tone in its communications. I'm suggesting this government takes responsibility for its actions; successes and failures.
They've not done it for 100+ years, why would they start now ? by 'they' i mean all governments.
weeksy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:51 pm
No, they'll be renting them. They're not just going to do it in a gazebo at the local park are they ? They'll have facilities/locations for storing it, supplying it, trucks, warehouses, staff, lihgting, heating, distribution, they'll have doctors, specialists, nurses, they'll have support staff, admin staff.
Part of the staffing will be volunteers, St John are asking everyone with a FAW certificate. I think Gedge mentioned police or fire getting involved.
The 'temporary' covid test centre I went to had portakabins with gazebos attached. Also, I guess they will repurpose flu vaccination sites. However, a complication for vaccination is 15 minute wait in case of allergic reaction (roughly 0.1% chance, similar to other vaccines) which will require space.
Are they building a million quid facility to deliver the vaccine now then? I'd missed that.
I'm coming in halfway through this conversation, so may be out of context, but Mrs. G has been involved in the building of a vaccine centre in east London and apparently there's more springing up everywhere.
millemille wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:16 pm
I run a business, as I'm sure do many on here, and I can't and don't hide from making a decision and communicating it and then accepting the plaudits if it was right or the brickbats if it was wrong. I'd expect nothing less from my, supposed, elders and betters...
There are different ways of saying the same thing - people hear what they want to hear and / or don't read between the lines. Sometimes you need to be subtle or kind or keep people onside.
In a meeting today, I wanted to tell a (more senior) colleague today to STFU and get back in his box. I found a different way of saying that because i have to work with the fecker next week. If I was top of the tree maybe I'd have just told him straight.
Politicians are skilled at trying to make the best out of every decision, every meeting. If they leave themselves open to too much criticism, they'll spend forever defending that rather than getting on with the job. Not really the same as running a business at all. I don't think they're all cnuts on purpose, they're human and to some extent it's an impossible task. Rather more responsibility that running most businesses I reckon.
Did they know when it was coming ? How it needed to be handled ? Where it was coming from ? How the infection rate would be when it arrives ? Which areas needed to be first ?
It's so easy sitting at home saying "they should have been better prepared", but i doubt the reality is anything like that. Who will have trained these people ? Would that have been easy with a global pandemic on ?
Lets say they had buildings costing £1,000,000 a week and thousands of staff costing the same, all sitting there waiting and the vaccine had been rejected and not arrived for another 6 months, would you have been OK with that, all the buildings and people sitting there doing nothing for 6 months ?
Are they building a million quid facility to deliver the vaccine now then? I'd missed that.
No, they'll be renting them. They're not just going to do it in a gazebo at the local park are they ? They'll have facilities/locations for storing it, supplying it, trucks, warehouses, staff, lihgting, heating, distribution, they'll have doctors, specialists, nurses, they'll have support staff, admin staff.
Are they building a million quid facility to deliver the vaccine now then? I'd missed that.
No, they'll be renting them. They're not just going to do it in a gazebo at the local park are they ? They'll have facilities/locations for storing it, supplying it, trucks, warehouses, staff, lihgting, heating, distribution, they'll have doctors, specialists, nurses, they'll have support staff, admin staff.
slowsider wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:23 pm
Are they building a million quid facility to deliver the vaccine now then? I'd missed that.
No, they'll be renting them.
Would Nightingale hospitals not be a good start?
Perhaps they are?
The Health Service Journal (HSJ) said that NHS England has told local leaders that each of the 42 health and care systems in England should have at least one mass vaccination site.
Senior sources told HSJ that a larger system could have two.
There are seven Nightingales. The Mirror 02.12.2020 reported:
Military personnel have been ordered to throw up makeshift vaccine sites at 10 locations. The Nightingale temporary hospital at the London ExCel centre and Epsom race course are among those being transformed into mass vaccination centres.
millemille wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm suggesting this government tell the truth for once.
Another conspiracy believer.
Just because the future frequently unfolds differently to what was expected doesn't mean that there is therefore a conspiracy.
Here's an uncomfortable truth for you: the only predictable thing about the future is that it is unpredictable.
Oh do bugger off! This is the 21st century, it's not the bloody middle ages where you have to read goat entrails and feel seaweed to predict the future.
Don't ever apply to me for a project manager's job.
millemille wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm suggesting this government tell the truth for once.
Another conspiracy believer.
Just because the future frequently unfolds differently to what was expected doesn't mean that there is therefore a conspiracy.
Here's an uncomfortable truth for you: the only predictable thing about the future is that it is unpredictable.
Oh do bugger off! This is the 21st century, it's not the bloody middle ages where you have to read goat entrails and feel seaweed to predict the future.
Don't ever apply to me for a project manager's job.
I'd be too scared in case you beat me to death with a chair.
So one week in, with incomplete figures and Millemille is already rubbishing the figures ?
Deliveries of large quantities of vaccines will take time as will distribution but with the aim of 1000 vaccination centres ( reasonable to assume a centre would have more than 1 member if staff doing vaccines and without pushing it they should do 50 vaccinations a day per staff member which if they have 10 per centre gets to 500,000 a day .... halve that and in the 105 days until Easter that’s 26 million ( or 13 million if they do 2 per patient which is still a huge number of patients ) ..this will depend upon availability of vaccine and that is IMO going to be the big sticking point, not the administering to patients .
We should consider that in The first week they had to gear up with booking systems and inviting ( mainly elderly and computer illiterate patients) in for first appointments.. The next phase, like the way Covid testing developed, will see eligible people making their own appointments or simply having walk in vaccination sites where you can prove your eligibility and have a jab within a few minutes will see the daily numbers rocketing ( especially when several vaccines are approved and production gets ramped up )
I still think that getting the vast majority of ‘vulnerable category’ patients vaccinated by Easter is possible ...
millemille wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm suggesting this government tell the truth for once.
Another conspiracy believer.
Just because the future frequently unfolds differently to what was expected doesn't mean that there is therefore a conspiracy.
Here's an uncomfortable truth for you: the only predictable thing about the future is that it is unpredictable.
Oh do bugger off! This is the 21st century, it's not the bloody middle ages where you have to read goat entrails and feel seaweed to predict the future.
In many cases it would be equally accurate
millemille wrote:Don't ever apply to me for a project manager's job.
FYI - Before being bought out in 2008 I was the absolute majority shareholder of a company which specialised in the ground up design and production of linear and nonlinear programming resource allocation packages marketed to food production corporations worldwide in over 60 countries. The company was even awarded the Queens Award for Export Achievement. lol
A Project Managers job? Hilarious!
ps - I was a specialist in Operations Research. Look it up. Bless.
weeksy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:39 pm
I'd be too scared in case you beat me to death with a chair.
Scared? Nah, I used to hire and fire arrogant twats like millemille (see above).
Last edited by irie on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
irie wrote:
FYI - Before being bought out in 2008 I was the absolute majority shareholder of a company which specialised in the ground up design and production of linear and nonlinear programming resource allocation packages marketed to food production corporations worldwide in over 60 countries. The company was even awarded the Queens Award for Export Achievement. lol
A Project Managers job? Hilarious!
ps - I was a specialist in Operations Research. Look it up. Bless.
TBF that merely demonstrates you owned >50% of the shares. You could have just bought them after your granddad left you a load of money from his dog food business and still make that claim.
irie wrote:
FYI - Before being bought out in 2008 I was the absolute majority shareholder of a company which specialised in the ground up design and production of linear and nonlinear programming resource allocation packages marketed to food production corporations worldwide in over 60 countries. The company was even awarded the Queens Award for Export Achievement. lol
A Project Managers job? Hilarious!
ps - I was a specialist in Operations Research. Look it up. Bless.
TBF that merely demonstrates you owned >50% of the shares. You could have just bought them after your granddad left you a load of money from his dog food business and still make that claim.
No silver spoon in my mouth, I started the company from scratch with a partner in 1970 working evenings from home. After he later bailed out I kept ~66% of the company.
Nice try. But fail.
Last edited by irie on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
I'm not the only one with a ban-hammer round here 
