Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:13 pm
Most road bike damping adjusters make very little difference, on some bikes I've had you couldn't tell the difference between an adjuster all the way in and out.
OTOH bikes were they do make a difference (GSXR1100K springs to mind) journalists accuse the bike of trying to kill them.
A mate always bought the latest 1100 and given the reputation the K had,I asked him what he thought. He said,"you and I have rode Z1s and wobbly strokers in the 70s,the handling of the K was something we only dreamed about".
Perspective innit. We are all picking the bones now.
Limited information on the waterproofness. But shouldn't be an issue in my world.
The only minor niggle is about 6:14 in you can see it's not quite a flush to the tank as the stock one, which is weird as it uses the same base apparently. But it's been mentioned on a thread too.
As I've mentioned on the forum before, I've changed the suspension on my 1150GSA and on my MT09.
On the GSA, the rear shock went and there wasn't any damping. I didn't actually know the damping had gone but I did know that I was very nervous cornering whereas a year earlier I was quite happy pushing my limits and the bike feeling very settled. It was only when speaking to MCT for the first time that it was suggested the damping had gone and that a rebuild wasn't possible (either on the front or rear - can't remember which) and I was forced to make a decision on new shocks.
Changing the shocks made a massive difference, I can't tell you how though, I just know the bike feels nicer to ride and it's more fun.
On the MT09, I'd read the articles in the magazines about the suspension and I'd budgeted for replacing the suspension but didn't actually think I'd spent it. My first impressions on the bike were that everything felt too hard - like you said, crashing into speed humps yet weaving (even at my speeds) when I had a pillion on the back. The tell-tale was that my GSA was way more fun to ride. so with that, it was off to MCT for a new Nitron R1 shock and for the fork to be set up. I've just called MCT to find out what was done on my fork - strip, modify the damping, new oil, new springs and set the air gap accordingly, all to suit my weight and riding style). I've only done 600 miles on it and still getting used to how quickly it turns compared to all my previous bikes but it's still a marked improvement on before.
Assuming the XSR is the same as the MT09, only one fork leg does the damping. With my forks all sorted and out of the yoke, Darren (MCT) showed me the difference between the damping in each leg. As you'd expect the undamped leg just rebounded quickly without oscillating. You could easily see on the damped leg that it was so much more controlled.
weeksy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:59 pm
Been giving this some thought today and weighing up some options.
Before i go out and get a box i've been reading bit from earlier in the thread of Trickys and G.Ps thoughts on the bike regarding 'fork dive' and while i don't recall having an issue myself, i've never been known for 'feel' on a motorbike, certainly not in the same way i have with a MTB that's for sure.
There's a number of options.
1. Fork oil, replace some/all with heavier weight oil
2. Springs + oil
3. Ktech SSK piston kit.
So i'm pretty sure i know where i'm heading with this, but if anyone in an XSR/MT09 or even just knowledge of the world of suspension has thoughts, i'm all ears
Option 2 to start with on my 9 and see how it goes. I'm sure it'll be an improvement over stock just because I'm outside the parameters of the standard springs.
Obviously a cartridge kit is going to be better but I'm not after setting a personal best lap time anymore just having fun.
Option 2 also gives me the chance to get my hands dirty
Aren't the forks on the XSR and later Mt09's more adjustable?
1. Yes, just 1 leg.
2. The crashing through has been helped massively by the shock i fitted.
3. No weaving, no instability at all. The XSR outhandles the MT09 in mine and most others opinion.
Scuffmark wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:37 pm
Aren't the forks on the XSR and later Mt09's more adjustable?
I have preload and a rebound adjuster only. I believe they're 'better' than the earlier versions, but i'm not sure how/why.
That's the same as the early Mt09.
The 2017 > Mt09 gets compression adjustment in the left fork leg and rebound in the right and I assumed, wrongly it would appear that the XSR was the same
Nopes... but weirdly, less people have issues with the handling on XSRs than they do on MT09s. I assume it's a geometry thing. I rode Couchies MT09SP and whilst i liked it, i did have a moment at the right hander at the top of Spitfires at Donny, similar feeling/moment to the ones he had 3-4 times a lap it seemed. I didn't feel quite as at home on the MT09as i did when i first jumped on the XSR900. That was a bit of a 'wow' moment.
Sometimes when i have daft ideas, i forget how much of a wow moment it was.... I need threads and discussions like this to remind me
weeksy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:25 pm
Limited information on the waterproofness. But shouldn't be an issue in my world.
The only minor niggle is about 6:14 in you can see it's not quite a flush to the tank as the stock one, which is weird as it uses the same base apparently. But it's been mentioned on a thread too.
Having watched the video it's a no for me just because of the seat to tank gap. Shame as I still like the look.
If you are thinking of upgrading fork internals,I've had good results with Maxton in the past. They more or less stated right away my own impressions of the forks on my Z1000.
Quote from an email.
FRONT
The forks on the Z1000 are upside down and have radially mounted brakes. The forks are the
SFF-BP forks which Showa have developed. The standard forks feel a bit notchy and harsh. This can cause the front to kick off small bumps when accelerating hard out of corners, this is because they have too much compression damping over small movements, however when you brake very hard you can sometimes get the forks to bottom out, this is because the springs in the forks are a little too soft. The biggest problem with the Z1000 forks is when you let go of the brake, the forks spring back at you and the bike does not turn into the corner as well as it should, this is because there is not enough rebound damping. There is also not enough travel in Z1000 forks. They have 110mm travel as standard, before the bump stops ‘kick in’. We recommend road bike forks to have 120mm travel.
Another ‘downside’ of the SFF-BP forks is that the spring is at the bottom of the fork. This means that to change the spring you need to remove the damping system first.
We have two options to improve the SFF-BP forks :
Option 1 :
We revalve and respring the original fork internals. When we revalve we reduce the compression damping and increase the rebound damping. We fit our own Maxton springs chosen to suit the rider weight. We also run the forks on our dyno and set the adjusters to a good base setting. The cost
of this conversion is £405.00 + V.A.T plus seals which cost £25.00 + V.A.T.
Option 2 :
To supply and fit our SD25 fork cartridges. This is our fully adjustable replacement fork internal. The SD25 cartridges have all the rebound damping in the right leg, all the compression damping in the left leg and springs in both legs. The SD25 cartridges are a big piston designed fork cartridge, this means you can have support under braking, but a softer more complinat rid mid corner. The SD25 cartridges also have a much bigger range of damping adjustment.
To fit the SD25 cartridges you first have to remove the existing internals. To do this you have to remove the alloy casting from the chrome stanchion. This adds extra time and cost to the job. To supply the SD25 cartridges costs £675.00 + V.A.T. To remove and refit the alloy casting and fit the SD25 internals with new fork seals costs £255.00 + V.A.T.
If you're gonna trade it for something orange in the next couple of months, don't bother. It won't add what you paid to the resale value, but you know that.
KungFooBob wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:41 pm
If it's a keeper, it's a no brainer.
If you're gonna trade it for something orange in the next couple of months, don't bother. It won't add what you paid to the resale value, but you know that.
weeksy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:20 pm
For the XSR,
Ktech Springs + oil £145
Ktech ssk piston kit £345
So 500 beer tokens to make it right. Just a thought. Maybe Yamaha could offer this up-spec for £250 as they'd save on the original bits ? They'd sell more
weeksy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:20 pm
For the XSR,
Ktech Springs + oil £145
Ktech ssk piston kit £345
Springs and oil might be okay for a road use upgrade, but if you're tracking it, then you'll want the lot. However, as KFB says, it probably going to go soon anyway, so best do nowt!
weeksy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:20 pm
For the XSR,
Ktech Springs + oil £145
Ktech ssk piston kit £345
Springs and oil might be okay for a road use upgrade, but if you're tracking it, then you'll want the lot. However, as KFB says, it probably going to go soon anyway, so best do nowt!
I've used it on track at Pembrey and Silverstone. But i'm not convinced apart from Portimao i'll be doing much in the way of track.
LOL the MT-10 isn't incoming at all matey. As i've said before, the only thing i'd swap the XSR for is a 790 to get the better track/electronics. However, you do lose a certain amount of potential reliability doing that which i'm not prepared to do.
weeksy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:10 am
However, you do lose a certain amount of potential reliability doing that which i'm not prepared to do.
I know I still have my 790, but there always is that bit of doubt about what could potentially go wrong. Hopefully I have a good one and all the key work is done, but who knows.
