Pfizer vaccine approved

[DefTrap]

I'm about to hit my 30th session, but I only do it for the free crisps.

But you're right, I've asked loads of my acquaintances to consider donating. Needle fear is by far the most common reason people don't.

The nought-ies were bloody poor for blood-donation freebies - they had some really poor biscuits at the tea table and no crisps. In the 90s they used to give you Club biscuits. And you got regular medals!

I've seen a fair few people have a right old nightmare giving blood over the years - one of the main reasons I still go, the process genuinely doesn't bother me, if it means someone who is genuinely frit doesn't have to then that's all good.

[Mr. Dazzle]

You get Seabrook Crisps, literally the only place down south I see 'em.

Keyrings are a thing of the past though. Even a sticker is a bit of an ask now. I got my 25 pin however!

[Skub]

Fucking crisps?

I've got up to 83 and only been offered bikkies.

[millemille]

Not wanting to get involved in the name calling but instead thinking about the logistics of vaccination.

As far as I'm aware all of the vaccines that are approved, or appear credible and likely to be approved, need two injections several weeks apart?

Let's say - and it's stretch - that 100,000 people per day can be vaccinated, which means that after 3 weeks from day 1 of the vaccination program 200,000 injections per day need to be administered, then you are still looking at it taking at least 500 days to immunise enough of the population for herd immunity to be realised.

And that's working 7 days a week, 365 days a year at that capacity.....

[weeksy]

Not wanting to get involved in the name calling but instead thinking about the logistics of vaccination.

As far as I'm aware all of the vaccines that are approved, or appear credible and likely to be approved, need two injections several weeks apart?

Let's say - and it's stretch - that 100,000 people per day can be vaccinated, which means that after 3 weeks from day 1 of the vaccination program 200,000 injections per day need to be administered, then you are still looking at it taking at least 500 days to immunise enough of the population for herd immunity to be realised.

And that's working 7 days a week, 365 days a year at that capacity.....

I'd say that's a very optimistic figure. But don't forget, let's say 25% of them are under 20, therefore you do them last.

[moth]

Not wanting to get involved in the name calling but instead thinking about the logistics of vaccination.

As far as I'm aware all of the vaccines that are approved, or appear credible and likely to be approved, need two injections several weeks apart?

Let's say - and it's stretch - that 100,000 people per day can be vaccinated, which means that after 3 weeks from day 1 of the vaccination program 200,000 injections per day need to be administered, then you are still looking at it taking at least 500 days to immunise enough of the population for herd immunity to be realised.

And that's working 7 days a week, 365 days a year at that capacity.....

I'd say that's a very optimistic figure. But don't forget, let's say 25% of them are under 20, therefore you do them last.

You can discount the ones screaming 'it's an infringement of my rights' too. That should get it down to manageable numbers if this thread's any indication

[Mr. Dazzle]

I've been thinking along similar lines to mm, but I came unstuck on estimating how many people you can vaccinate every day!

We already do flu vacs every year and the aforementioned blood donation must he a fair number of jabs.

They managed to sort of magic up 100,000 tests a day...

Really not sure!

[millemille]

I've been thinking along similar lines to mm, but I came unstuck on estimating how many people you can vaccinate every day!

We already do flu vacs every year and the aforementioned blood donation must he a fair number of jabs.

They managed to sort of magic up 100,000 tests a day...

Really not sure!

I'd say that each injection would take 10 minutes to administer, not the jab itself but the admin to check the recipient's identity and log it and check the ampule and do some kind of data entry and cleaning down after each patient etc., so to administer 200,000 injections in a 12 hour day you'd need about 3,000 people nationwide just stabbing people.....

[Horse]

I'd say that each injection would take 10 minutes to administer, not the jab itself but the admin to check the recipient's identity and log it and check the ampule and do some kind of data entry and cleaning down after each patient etc., so to administer 200,000 injections in a 12 hour day you'd need about 3,000 people nationwide just stabbing people.....

Recruitment is underway. St John Ambulance have contacted everyone with a First Aid at Work qualification
and is on their contact list. Presumably their other suitable volunteers.

[Gedge]

Not wanting to get involved in the name calling but instead thinking about the logistics of vaccination.

As far as I'm aware all of the vaccines that are approved, or appear credible and likely to be approved, need two injections several weeks apart?

Let's say - and it's stretch - that 100,000 people per day can be vaccinated, which means that after 3 weeks from day 1 of the vaccination program 200,000 injections per day need to be administered, then you are still looking at it taking at least 500 days to immunise enough of the population for herd immunity to be realised.

And that's working 7 days a week, 365 days a year at that capacity.....

I'd say that's a very optimistic figure. But don't forget, let's say 25% of them are under 20, therefore you do them last.

I’m Not following the maths ?

100,000 per day is 2.1 million in 3 weeks which would equate to 10 million by end of March .. There are around 7600 ( google fact) doctors surgeries , so ignoring purpose built vaccination sites and hospitals let alone pharmacies so if each surgery did 15 vaccinations a day that would easily be 100,000 a day ...in reality vaccination centres and hospitals re likely to do many tens if thousands more a day ( test centre already do hundreds of thousands of covid tests which I reckon would take longer than a vaccination )

[Mr. Dazzle]

I've been thinking along similar lines to mm, but I came unstuck on estimating how many people you can vaccinate every day!

We already do flu vacs every year and the aforementioned blood donation must he a fair number of jabs.

They managed to sort of magic up 100,000 tests a day...

Really not sure!

I'd say that each injection would take 10 minutes to administer, not the jab itself but the admin to check the recipient's identity and log it and check the ampule and do some kind of data entry and cleaning down after each patient etc., so to administer 200,000 injections in a 12 hour day you'd need about 3,000 people nationwide just stabbing people.....

For ref...as I mentioned before my rents both volunteer at their local hospital. That one hospital has vacancies for 600 stabbers. In one hospital.

Edit : I would guess that 600 is actually for the trust. According to the news there are 53 such trusts, so you're looking at ~30,000 stabbers if they're all similarly manned. If each of them can do 6 an hour that'd be 48 for every 8 hour shift....which is more than a 1.5 million a day for all of them combined.

I suspect the true figure would be less than 1.5 million a day but considerably more than the 100,000 mooted.

[millemille]

I've been thinking along similar lines to mm, but I came unstuck on estimating how many people you can vaccinate every day!

We already do flu vacs every year and the aforementioned blood donation must he a fair number of jabs.

They managed to sort of magic up 100,000 tests a day...

Really not sure!

I'd say that each injection would take 10 minutes to administer, not the jab itself but the admin to check the recipient's identity and log it and check the ampule and do some kind of data entry and cleaning down after each patient etc., so to administer 200,000 injections in a 12 hour day you'd need about 3,000 people nationwide just stabbing people.....

For ref...as I mentioned before my rents both volunteer at their local hospital. That one hospital has vacancies for 600 stabbers. In one hospital.

600 stabbers (I like that description) in a pool means that over a 12hr/7 day period on any one day there'd be about 250 stabbers on duty. So you'd need
another 11 centres like that. That sounds plausible, in terms of vaccination centres around the UK, but is it plausible to find that many stabbers per hospital?

[Mr. Dazzle]

600 stabbers (I like that description) in a pool means that over a 12hr/7 day period on any one day there'd be about 250 stabbers on duty. So you'd need
another 11 centres like that. That sounds plausible, in terms of vaccination centres around the UK, but is it plausible to find that many stabbers per hospital?

Well the reason it came to their attention is because the trust have put out feelers to anyone and everyone who is first aid trained. They're going to police, fire, RNLI, public transport staff etc. trying to find people with formal first aid quals to train up.

[Horse]

There are around 7600 ( google fact) doctors surgeries , so ignoring purpose built vaccination sites

Our surgery does specific days for flu jabs. The actual jabs are done indoors, but they close the car park (about 30 cars sized), set up zig zag crush barriers and production line. The queue is about walking speed.

As you say, some places set up dedicated vaccination sites, there's one at Blackbushe airport.

[Horse]

Well the reason it came to their attention is because the trust have put out feelers to anyone and everyone who is first aid trained. They're going to police, fire, RNLI, public transport staff etc. trying to find people with formal first aid quals to train up.

See my earlier post (and a few days ago). SJA are emailing nationally. The commitment required, subject to qualification, is 3 days training, then a certain number of shifts each month.

[demographic]

If its our current administration sorting it out they'll contract it out to a private company of ratcatchers and they'll manage about a thousand in a month.

[Gedge]

There are around 7600 ( google fact) doctors surgeries , so ignoring purpose built vaccination sites

Our surgery does specific days for flu jabs. The actual jabs are done indoors, but they close the car park (about 30 cars sized), set up zig zag crush barriers and production line. The queue is about walking speed.

As you say, some places set up dedicated vaccination sites, there's one at Blackbushe airport.

I can foresee a switch from mass testing centres into mass vaccination centres ...the one I attended had around 10 ‘nurses’ overseeing the tests and I imagine a good proportion if those are already qualified to vaccinate ..I know police forces have been approached about first aid trained officers and retired officers that might be able to assist. Considering they do close on 2 million tests a week I don’t see a similar ( or larger) number of vaccinations a week .

30,000 ‘stabbers’ is not hard to envisage as thats only 4 stabbers per Doctors surgery ? If they did 50 each per day that’s 1.5 million a day !! with around 16 weeks until end of March even at 5 days a week that’s 120 million vaccinations ..enough for 2 for every uk adult before Easter ...even allowing for shortfalls that would easily achieve herd immunity by Easter ...in fact the only stumbling block as far as I can see isn’t capacity to administer it is in the production of the vaccine especially once the rest of Europe / rest of the worked starts demanding their ore ordered amounts ..

[Gedge]

If its our current administration sorting it out they'll contract it out to a private company of ratcatchers and they'll manage about a thousand in a month.

The same shonky ratcatchers that carried out 2.7 million coronavirus tests in the last 7 days .?

[millemille]

Not wanting to get involved in the name calling but instead thinking about the logistics of vaccination.

As far as I'm aware all of the vaccines that are approved, or appear credible and likely to be approved, need two injections several weeks apart?

Let's say - and it's stretch - that 100,000 people per day can be vaccinated, which means that after 3 weeks from day 1 of the vaccination program 200,000 injections per day need to be administered, then you are still looking at it taking at least 500 days to immunise enough of the population for herd immunity to be realised.

And that's working 7 days a week, 365 days a year at that capacity.....

I'd say that's a very optimistic figure. But don't forget, let's say 25% of them are under 20, therefore you do them last.

I’m Not following the maths ?

100,000 per day is 2.1 million in 3 weeks which would equate to 10 million by end of March .. There are around 7600 ( google fact) doctors surgeries , so ignoring purpose built vaccination sites and hospitals let alone pharmacies so if each surgery did 15 vaccinations a day that would easily be 100,000 a day ...in reality vaccination centres and hospitals re likely to do many tens if thousands more a day ( test centre already do hundreds of thousands of covid tests which I reckon would take longer than a vaccination )

You need 2 injections to immunise a person, spaced 3 weeks apart, so after the initial 3 weeks of injecting for no net result the productivity of the system (injections administered vs. immunisation achieved) is 0.5.

200,000 injections a day gives you 100,000 immunised people per day. 1 million is 10 days and we need, it appears, somewhere between 60 and 75% of the population immunised to achieve herd immunity. Worst case this means 50 million people need to be immune, but the vaccines appear to have 90% - or thereabouts - efficacy so you need to immunise 55 million or thereabouts to be sure. 550 days of non-stop vaccination at 200,000 injections per day on average to achieve this.

While the test centres do have a high throughput of tests bare in mind they are doing very little other than acting as hand out/collection points for the tests - which are largely self administered - and paperwork and that the test centres do not process the samples. The processing of the samples is done in industrial laboratories and is highly automated and done in large batches, not something you can do when administering injections.

We can't be in a situation where immunisation comes at the expense of all else, in terms of health service provision. We're already in the position where COVID has impacted upon the NHS's ability to do its day job and lives have/will be lost - to what extent is unclear - as a result. So can the existing infrastructure be asked to accommodate such a massive undertaking or does new need to be created?

The problem I foresee, although I may well be wrong, is that vaccination is going to rely on several different "brands" of vaccine and everyone will have to be given the correct pair of injections and, from the limited exposure I've had to NHS IT and record integrity/stability through my wife's past jobs as a hospice nurse, I don't think the existing NHS medical record system is up to administering 152 million new records/entries in a way that absolutely 100% guarantees everyone gets the correct injection at the correct time. So I can't see every GP surgery being capable of administering vaccinations because the record keeping/access won't allow it. The vaccination process will rely on a different IT system I would presume.

But of course I could be talking out of my hoop and the government has got it all planned and under control and it'll be a cinch....

[demographic]

If its our current administration sorting it out they'll contract it out to a private company of ratcatchers and they'll manage about a thousand in a month.

The same shonky ratcatchers that carried out 2.7 million coronavirus tests in the last 7 days .?

I was thinking more of the ones who got paid millions for substandard PPE.
You know, the party donor ones who never even produced PPE in the first place.