Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[wheelnut]

Yes. Even in non pure EVs now the brake lights are linked to deceleration rate as well as touching the pedal.

Yes, something I didn't realise at first.

Coming along a country road and I overtook a coach. By the time I drew level with the front of the coach I was going a reasonably rapid rate of knots so I rolled off as I pulled back in. The coach driver blew his horn. It was only later I realised the brake light activates on deceleration. The coach driver probably thought I brake tested him.

[wheelnut]

Some of the regen braking can be set quite severe ime, it's good though and reduces the need to press pedal.

I have no idea how much it actually puts back into the battery, not a lot I would imagine. Someone must know.

You do seem to get a much better range hooning on country roads using regen mode (and using the 'engine' braking to slow for the corners) than you do on a motorway.

[Mr. Dazzle]

There's supposed to be a quarry up a mountain, where electric haul trucks are used to bring stone down.

And the downhill loaded regen provides more electric than needed to drive empty uphill.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... -recharged

A quarry in Biel, Switzerland, is operating the world's largest electric vehicle, a 110-ton dump truck, to haul lime and marl off the side of a mountain to a cement factory. Perhaps best of all, it consumes no energy doing it.

How is that possible, you ask?

The dump truck, at 45 tons, ascends the 13-percent grade and takes on 65 tons of ore. With more than double the weight going back down the hill, the beast's regenerative braking system recaptures more than enough energy to refill the charge the eDumper used going up.

[Mr. Dazzle]

You do seem to get a much better range hooning on country roads using regen mode (and using the 'engine' braking to slow for the corners) than you do on a motorway.

I suspect that's less to do with the regen and more to do with the fact you're just going slower on average. It takes about 40% more power to drive at 70mph than it does at 60mph and nearly 100% more than it takes to drive at 50mph. If you're inclined cruise at 80mph on the motorway the difference is even more stark, 80mph vs 50mph represents a ~150% drag increase.

In an EV it's almost always more efficient to drive slower because the efficiency of the drivetrain is so consistent. In an ICE there's a "best cruising speed" because of the peculiar inefficiency behaviour of an ICE engine.

Where the regen/EVness would come into it is simply the fact you lose less speeding up and slowing down. Driving at an average of 50mph on a twisty road, but speeding/slowing between 30 and 70 for example represents a lot of acceleration. In an ICE car you have to 'pay' to speed up but you can't 'reclaim' to slow down, but you can in an EV of course, which makes all that speeding/slowing less punishing.

[Dodgy69]

Do they have it in formula E. ?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah course, loads more than on road cars. Most road cars could regen brake much more strongly than they currently do, they're just "knocked back" becuase OEMs are still working on getting the blend of mechanical and regen braking to "feel right" and work reliably. The next generation of road cars will regen brake much more strongly.

No such issues in Formula E, where they pretty much max it out. Nearly half the energy they use to 'drive' the car was recovered in regen earlier in the race. In fact the energy recovered in regen only stays in teh battery for a second or two 'cause of course in racing it's always Big Brake -> Big Gas innit.

F1 has lots of regen braking too, that's what "KERS" is.

The regen braking is fully capable of locking the wheels, indeed the so called "uncontrolled regen" failure case is something you have to safeguard against strongly.

[Horse]

OEMs are still working on getting the blend of mechanical and regen braking to "feel right"

Is the intention to have the situation where lifting off the throttle gives an 'engine braking' effect and use the brake pedal gives higher regen?

Presumably issues with regen not always being in all wheels (unlike brakes).

Does regen have issues for broken down EV being towed?

[Mr. Dazzle]

There are many ways it could be done and each OEM will approach it differently I imagine, at least at first, until they all coalesce on a common approach. One pedal driving is nice after all, so many people wouldn't want to lose that.

Towing an EV does require the EV to know it's being towed. If you towed a 'dead' one it would offer no resistance at first, but it'd get harder and harder to tow the faster you went. I can't remember the last time I saw a car, any car, being towed though.

As you say, you need to consider which wheels actually have motors connected and how powerful those motors are. There's no one answer there. You'd also start thinking about putting the mechanical brakes inside the EDUs (Electric Drive Unit - the complete assembly or motor, gearbox, housing) because they're only going to be used occasionally. Doing that means you could have liquid cooled drum brakes for example. Euro 7 is also going to place limits on brake emissions, another reason inboard brakes could make a comeback.

Fascinating time to be in the industry.

[Horse]

Towing an EV does require the EV to know it's being towed. If you towed a 'dead' one it would offer no resistance at first, but it'd get harder and harder to tow the faster you went. I can't remember the last time I saw a car, any car, being towed though.

I was thinking of recovery 'specs' lifts, which support one pair of wheels.

[Taipan]

My neighbours drive looks like a MZ dealership! She chopped in her Ford Kuga for a leccy MG. A couple months later i noticed her daughter has done that same. When her Son was visiting yesterday I saw he'd got rid of his beloved merc and got a MG as well! Must be something good about them!

[KungFooBob]

My neighbours drive looks like a MZ dealership! She chopped in her Ford Kuga for a leccy MG. A couple months later i noticed her daughter has done that same. When her Son was visiting yesterday I saw he'd got rid of his beloved merc and got a MG as well! Must be something good about them!

They are cheap to buy and often have very good PCP deals, 0%, etc... I see loads of ZS' on the roads.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Chinese EVs busy supplanting yesterday manufacturers.

Never fear, Trump'll stop em!

[Count Steer]

Meh. Just bought a not-Chinese car.

(Or, more accurately, wife has just agreed to replace Japanese hybrid shopping trolley with new version of same. Oh, the excitement. Be still my beating heart).

However, did have a wander past another make of vehicle place while we were there and a sales chap inside waved at us. Hmmm....proactive sales I thought! Turns out it was the chap who sold me my BMW R1150GS and one or two other bikes. Haven't seen him for about 17 years or more!

[Rockburner]

Meh. Just bought a not-Chinese car.

(Or, more accurately, wife has just agreed to replace Japanese hybrid shopping trolley with new version of same. Oh, the excitement. Be still my beating heart).

However, did have a wander past another make of vehicle place while we were there and a sales chap inside waved at us. Hmmm....proactive sales I thought! Turns out it was the chap who sold me my BMW R1150GS and one or two other bikes. Haven't seen him for about 17 years or more!

He must have a good memory!

(If he's ex Vines I possibly know him too)

[KungFooBob]

Meh. Just bought a not-Chinese car.

(Or, more accurately, wife has just agreed to replace Japanese hybrid shopping trolley with new version of same. Oh, the excitement. Be still my beating heart).

However, did have a wander past another make of vehicle place while we were there and a sales chap inside waved at us. Hmmm....proactive sales I thought! Turns out it was the chap who sold me my BMW R1150GS and one or two other bikes. Haven't seen him for about 17 years or more!

He must have a good memory!

(If he's ex Vines I possibly know him too)

Maybe he just remembered the Counts facial tattoo, cant be too many about like it?

[Count Steer]

Meh. Just bought a not-Chinese car.

(Or, more accurately, wife has just agreed to replace Japanese hybrid shopping trolley with new version of same. Oh, the excitement. Be still my beating heart).

However, did have a wander past another make of vehicle place while we were there and a sales chap inside waved at us. Hmmm....proactive sales I thought! Turns out it was the chap who sold me my BMW R1150GS and one or two other bikes. Haven't seen him for about 17 years or more!

He must have a good memory!

(If he's ex Vines I possibly know him too)

Maybe he just remembered the Counts facial tattoo, cant be too many about like it?

...and the missus's. We've each got half of the yin/yang symbol with the left and right eyes being the dots.

[Count Steer]

Clearly people will buy electric cars....but not so many Teslas. European sales plunge, shares down 9%.

Swasti-cars carrying a bit too much association with Mr Freedom of Speech. I expect he'll label us all Quislings and traitors because we have freedom of what we spend money on.

Second-hand market could be interesting.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Loads more options on the market now too TBF. Chinese stuff is really cutting into Tesla cause its way cheaper. BMW and Renault have got some attractive options now too and Teslas are still "a bit shit" in every department save the powertrain. Oh and crash safety TBF, they've always been good there but that's mostly a generic EV thing.

[Count Steer]

Loads more options on the market now too TBF. Chinese stuff is really cutting into Tesla cause its way cheaper. BMW and Renault have got some attractive options now too and Teslas are still "a bit shit" in every department save the powertrain. Oh and crash safety TBF, they've always been good there but that's mostly a generic EV thing.

Yebbut. A 24% drop in the month suggests that sales figures matter and it's not just incremental loss to Chinese makes. A possible reversal of 'all publicity is good publicity'.

Psychology is strange though. One one hand I'd probably say I'm not ready to buy a Chinese car, on the other I'd be happy with a Volvo, probably made in China and owned by Geely.

[KungFooBob]

I'd be happy with a Volvo, probably made in China and owned by Geely.

<Waves>

They still make some models in Gothenburg (and South Carolina and Belgium).