Pfizer vaccine approved

[slowsider]

I get that you’re playing devils advocate but maybe not everyone’s quite as poorly informed as you seem to be suggesting, putting yourself in the self-appointed position of educator to the thickies is only going to further polarise the debate IMO

Can you point out the thickies, just so we know

They're the ones asking to be pointed out.
Hth

[Asian Boss]

It's all thanks to Brexit, gawd bless it, anyway!...

Lovely, lovely Brexit. That's going so positively. Well done to all those who personally helped make it happen. We remember who you are.

[wheelnut]

Of course not, but it does put things into perspective. Shit yourself about a few hundred thousand being affected by covid but turn a blind eye to millions of lives ruined by the drugs sold on every high street.

I realise I’m nibbling on your hook (again), but the sad reality is that’s it not about the deaths. It’s about the ability of this particular strain of virus to overwhelm everything in its path simply by the ease of its transmission and maths. The disruption to our way of life, our health services, businesses and the economy would be even more catastrophic if left to run amok.

Like you say none of us gets of this alive, but I quite like my life (such as it lasts) and my freedom and if that means some mouth breathers need to be cajoled, blackmailed and threatened into not being idiots then so be it.

[wheelnut]

A lot of the people diagnosed with Aids in the 80s believed they only had a few years to live. They spent their savings and sold their assets. 30 years later and they're still around, fit and able but homeless and forgotten, suffering from depression.

There’s very few people, if any, that were HIV positive in the 80s that are alive now. Nowadays it’s a chronic condition that can be managed through a shit load of drugs. Back then, it was a death sentence, and a pretty swift one once the condition moved from HIV to the AIDS stage.

[DefTrap]

An IPSOS survey found that 46pc of the French will refuse a jab, compared to Spain (36pc), Italy (35pc), Germany (30pc) and the UK (21pc).

No I never.

But yay! Early vaccine for me.

FWIW my unbearable neighbour Fabrice - when he unavoidably collars me - is all over conspiracy theories and blah-blah Trump was robbed. Thrilled to find out he definitely isn't having a vaccine (because something about not trusting something or other 'suspicious'). Pretty much the only time his nonsense has made me smile.

[Saga Lout]

It’s nothing to do with that, it’s about a civic responsibility to protect others and remove the restrictions that are blighting so many lives which in turn are leading to other health crises.

My work brings me in to contact with leading vaccinologists, epidemiologists and immunologists- it’s not an exaggeration to say some of the are the world experts at the top of the field. One aspect of modelling that is studied is “vaccine confidence” which, sadly, is at an all time low in Spain and some other European countries. This is factored into the likely impact of vaccine roll out. Unfortunately the 95% efficacy rates claimed by Pfizer assume 100% uptake, which of course will never happen, but we need a high uptake to realise the full societal benefits

I will have the vaccine. Eventually. But when I do, it'll be to protect me, not to protect others, just like I have the flu vaccine every year to protect me. It's not up to me to protect others. Others can have the vaccine if they want to be protected. That's how vaccines work.

[Yorick]

I think our lovely island should only allow folk in who've had the vaccine. Currently we only allow folk in with a valid negative test.

I've had 2 pals fly back from UK in last week and both said some tossers tried to get on the plane without a valid certificate. All were kicked off the flight. And they all whined and argued like fuck about their human rights.

Our human rights say we don't want the selfish tossers here

[Mr. Dazzle]

It's not up to me to protect others.

Meh, just be glad not everyone feels that way.

I accept gift vouchers or cash by way of thanks BTW.

[wheelnut]

I will have the vaccine. Eventually. But when I do, it'll be to protect me, not to protect others, just like I have the flu vaccine every year to protect me. It's not up to me to protect others. Others can have the vaccine if they want to be protected. That's how vaccines work.

A vaccine doesn’t give you 100% protection. They work by protecting everyone to the point where the virus finds it difficult to jump about. A vaccine works when the vast majority of people are vaccinated.

That’s why the likes of measles is on the rise again, because some people are more susceptible to it, vaccinated or not. If less people are vaccinated then the more chance those susceptible will get it.

[Saga Lout]

It's not up to me to protect others.

Meh, just be glad not everyone feels that way.

I accept gift vouchers or cash by way of thanks BTW.

Other people don't protect me against flu, those who have the flu vaccine do so to protect themselves.

[Potter]

I realise I’m nibbling on your hook (again), but the sad reality is that’s it not about the deaths. It’s about the ability of this particular strain of virus to overwhelm everything in its path simply by the ease of its transmission and maths. The disruption to our way of life, our health services, businesses and the economy would be even more catastrophic if left to run amok.

I entirely understand your perspective, if I was living in the UK I'm sure I'd feel the same way, and I agree, it needs dealing with if you want life to go back to how it was.

[irie]

It's not up to me to protect others.

Meh, just be glad not everyone feels that way.

I accept gift vouchers or cash by way of thanks BTW.

Other people don't protect me against flu, those who have the flu vaccine do so to protect themselves.

"Other people" have vaccines both to protect themselves and to protect others through herd/community immunity. You will undoubtedly have benefitted from the latter throughout your life.

[wheelnut]

I entirely understand your perspective, if I was living in the UK I'm sure I'd feel the same way, and I agree, it needs dealing with if you want life to go back to how it was.

One of these days you’ll post something without a dollop of stinky bait.

Had the UAE escaped it? Is there no mask wearing or social distancing and Perspex screens there?

Cases are back on the rise in the UAE as they are everywhere else, and, in my eyes anyway, it’s one a bunch of countries where the figures can’t be fully trusted. The IMF is predicting a Middle East downturn worse than the 2008 crash. Lots of ME countries are using it as a reason to repatriate their migrant workers.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Other people don't protect me against flu, those who have the flu vaccine do so to protect themselves.

As above....meh. Not everyone is so cynical. I'm at very little risk from Covid-19 but I'll still have the jab if its available to me.

You're quite right it is not up to you to protect others, that's your choice. But like I said, if everyone felt that way the world would be a much worse place.

[Potter]

I entirely understand your perspective, if I was living in the UK I'm sure I'd feel the same way, and I agree, it needs dealing with if you want life to go back to how it was.

One of these days you’ll post something without a dollop of stinky bait.

Had the UAE escaped it? Is there no mask wearing or social distancing and Perspex screens there?

Cases are back on the rise in the UAE as they are everywhere else, and, in my eyes anyway, it’s one a bunch of countries where the figures can’t be fully trusted. The IMF is predicting a Middle East downturn worse than the 2008 crash. Lots of ME countries are using it as a reason to repatriate their migrant workers.

I don’t know what it is you’re looking for? I was going to just not respond but in the end I thought the safest thing is just write something entirely agreeing with you, but that’s not good enough either?

Every day 10,000 kids starve to death on planet earth and every year about 55,000,000 people die of something other than covid.

I hope the vaccine gives you what you’re looking for.

(I have no idea what the UAE news is, google it)

[Mr. Dazzle]

Every day 10,000 kids starve to death on planet earth and every year about 55,000,000 people die of something other than covid.

I've yet to see anyone disagree with the thrust of this? As Nidge said I think we're all aware that people die of lots of things.

The thing is, all of these causes of death that have been brought up are already extensively addressed. Smoking, drinking etc. l mentioned above. Driving has road laws, tests, vehicle construction regs etc, pollutants are heavily regulated yada yada. Lots of other diseases (flu, measles, mumps etc.) have long running vaccination programmes. Every year we all buy stupid red noses to sooth our feelings on starving children.

So yeah, we're all gonna die of something but I don't think anyone is turning a blind eye to that?

I don't see Covid measures being particularly panic lead. Yes there are gonna be individual instances of people being dumb but by and large it hasn't been insane with rioting in the streets*. Naturally it dominates the news, but IME life has generally bumped along in a new fashion. Maybe I'm just lucky.

*Well there was, but that was something else.

[Potter]

I've yet to see anyone disagree with the thrust of this? As Nidge said I think we're all aware that people die of lots of things.

I don’t think every one is aware.
I’m ok with people going crackers over whatever news they want to but what killed my pig on this thread was the abuse of anyone not wanting a vaccine.

As I said before, there is a ridiculous amount of anger being generated over the vaccine to the point that people want to force parents to put stuff into their kids that they don’t want to - but I reckon that if you grabbed one of these angry people and asked them how angry they are about 10k kids starving to death they’d look at you like you were talking about people on another planet.

I don’t really have anything else to argue, I’m just not into forcing medicines on people if they don’t want it.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I can't recall what every poster said, but AFAIK the consensus opinion is that it shouldn't be forced? Most people have said they're against forced action I think?

If you want a stupid example....I don't want to get in your car and force you to drive your car slowly by schools, or grab your steering wheel so you drive on the left (in the UK ) but I'm perfectly happy for you to be banned from the roads if you can't do it as well.

Maybe thats just me chickening out and letting someone else force for me, I dunno.

[Potter]

I’m not really inclined to argue about the argument - Weeksy will have a fit

[wheelnut]

I don’t know what it is you’re looking for? I was going to just not respond but in the end I thought the safest thing is just write something entirely agreeing with you, but that’s not good enough either?

You know exactly what you’re doing. But that’s fine.