Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Strictly speaking yes, but it's become a blanket term for "buttons which don't actually move and click".

[Taipan]

We were talking about the whole driver aids thing and how it'd taken driver ability away. I drove my f-i-l Picasso recently and realised i could barely judge it when backing it into a parking space as it has no parking sensors, reversing cameras etc. I was reminded of my friends Son who inherited a MGB GT and had problems starting it. When i asked him if he got it sorted yet, he said yes, turns out theres a lever you pull on the dashboard which is called a choke...

[Horse]

Strictly speaking yes, but it's become a blanket term for "buttons which don't actually move and click".

Ah, so a button that isn't a button. Glad we've cleared that up.

So what's the industry term for buttons that move and go 'click'?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Our other car is a 2011 Honda Civic without even cruise control.

I bemoan the fact I have to "clockwork park"

[Cousin Jack]

Strictly speaking yes, but it's become a blanket term for "buttons which don't actually move and click".

So basically some wally has used 'black' when he meant 'white' and no we are all expected to do the same.

[Pirahna]

We were talking about the whole driver aids thing and how it'd taken driver ability away. I drove my f-i-l Picasso recently and realised i could barely judge it when backing it into a parking space as it has no parking sensors, reversing cameras etc. I was reminded of my friends Son who inherited a MGB GT and had problems starting it. When i asked him if he got it sorted yet, he said yes, turns out theres a lever you pull on the dashboard which is called a choke...

I've been thinking about a Defender for some time, the 300 is very rare here so it would be a TD5. I can just about justify owning one, it's just a matter of getting my head around the asking prices.

[Horse]

driver aids thing and how it'd taken driver ability away. I drove my f-i-l Picasso recently and realised i could barely judge it when backing it into a parking space as it has no parking sensors, reversing cameras etc.

Soon after we bought Filly's SEAT Ateca, Google maps took us down a long single track road.

Several miles, with a Transit van up our chuff all the way. Around a bend to meet warning signs for a narrow bridge, 6' 6".

Vanman did a three-point and disappeared back around the corner.

The Ateca has a self-parking system. That means sensors all around. They bleep, then scream (different tone for front and rear), as you get closer, and the display indicators go from amber to red.

As we went through the steel posts 'gateway', one side was red and the other amber.

Checked later, 6' 1 1/2" over the wheel arches.

[ZRX61]

They may have been weaponized...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/te ... rcna185932

[Taipan]

If it works its not stupid right?

[Rockburner]

Strictly speaking yes, but it's become a blanket term for "buttons which don't actually move and click".

Ah, so a button that isn't a button. Glad we've cleared that up.

So what's the industry term for buttons that move and go 'click'?

Physical.

[Rockburner]

If it works its not stupid right?

Tesla Hybrid.

You watch, Tesla will be selling that as a kit soon. For about 5k

[Rockburner]

If it works its not stupid right?

Tesla Hybrid.

You watch, Tesla will be selling that as a kit soon. For about 5k

Sorry - forgot myself, this is Tesla we're talking about: make that $35k.

[KungFooBob]

There's a few leccy cars that have 'generators' built in to charge the batteries rather than drive the wheels like a hybrid.

The early BMW i3's had an optional 'range extender'.

The current Mazda MX30 can be specified with a generator too, but in true Mazda stylee it's a rotary one.

[Count Steer]

I imagine those portable generators will be an essential item in RAC and AA vans - if they aren't already.

PS The size of that screen!

[Rockburner]

There's a few leccy cars that have 'generators' built in to charge the batteries rather than drive the wheels like a hybrid.

The early BMW i3's had an optional 'range extender'.

The current Mazda MX30 can be specified with a generator too, but in true Mazda stylee it's a rotary one.

The rotary engine is an ideal small power source for that sort of thing., or better yet, a turbine engine.

IIRC the Jaguar concept from a few years ago had twin turbine engines (as in miniature aircraft style jet turbines) to be power sources. They're better than a small piston engine because there's less moving parts and they don't need to be efficient at wide ranges of engine speed.

[Horse]

The early BMW i3's had an optional 'range extender'.

IIRC it used their scooter engine.

[Horse]

I imagine those portable generators will be an essential item in RAC and AA vans

Don't know about AA, but the RAC have been carrying specific EV charge packs for several years.

https://www.rac.co.uk/innovation/ev-boost

[Mr. Dazzle]

There is also work going on to think about makings EV's "towable".

The problem with most of them is, the motors are permanently fixed to the wheels like er...a fixy bicycle. There's no clutch and only a simple single ratio gearbox with no neutral. EV's generally don't need a clutch or neutral! Thus if the wheels are moving, the motors are moving.

If you try and push one at walking pace that's generally fine. The problem is, when you try and tow one at any kind of speed more than glacial, the motors of course have to spin quickly. This makes two problems - the mechanical side, in that the bearings and gears need oil, and more crucially the motors get harder and harder to spin because of course they're now acting as generators. At 50mph, if you didn't do anything about it, the motors would be sucking tens or even hundreds of BHP out of the wheels! Thus you're never seriously going to tow one.

You can actually wire the motors to not do that, which of course you need to be able to do anyway to drive the car - if you didn't, you'd go through the windscreen every time you lifted off the accelerator*. But that requires active contro and power, so if you're towing the car 'cause the battery is dead/faulty...well...how's that gonna work?

IIRC the Jaguar concept from a few years ago had twin turbine engines (as in miniature aircraft style jet turbines) to be power sources. They're better than a small piston engine because there's less moving parts and they don't need to be efficient at wide ranges of engine speed.

Yeah the CX75. Those little turbines have been around for ages, loads of people talked about putting them in cars but there are quite a few technical challenges. Bladon Jets made it work though, for other applications, they were a big customer of ours.

https://www.bladonmt.com

*Side note, the regen braking on most EVs is tuned down quite a bit from what's actually possible, for precisely this reason

[Rockburner]

There is also work going on to think about makings EV's "towable".

The problem with most of them is, the motors are permanently fixed to the wheels like er...a fixy bicycle. There's no clutch and only a simple single ratio gearbox with no neutral. EV's generally don't need a clutch or neutral! Thus if the wheels are moving, the motors are moving.

If you try and push one at walking pace that's generally fine. The problem is, when you try and tow one at any kind of speed more than glacial, the motors of course have to spin quickly. This makes two problems - the mechanical side, in that the bearings and gears need oil, and more crucially the motors get harder and harder to spin because of course they're now acting as generators. At 50mph, if you didn't do anything about it, the motors would be sucking tens or even hundreds of BHP out of the wheels! Thus you're never seriously going to tow one.

You can actually wire the motors to not do that, which of course you need to be able to do anyway to drive the car - if you didn't, you'd go through the windscreen every time you lifted off the accelerator*. But that requires active contro and power, so if you're towing the car 'cause the battery is dead/faulty...well...how's that gonna work?

*Side note, the regen braking on most EVs is tuned down quite a bit from what's actually possible, for precisely this reason

I'm somewhat gobsmacked that that scenario (towing an EV) wasn't considered and dealt with at project concept.

IIRC the Jaguar concept from a few years ago had twin turbine engines (as in miniature aircraft style jet turbines) to be power sources. They're better than a small piston engine because there's less moving parts and they don't need to be efficient at wide ranges of engine speed.

Yeah the CX75. Those little turbines have been around for ages, loads of people talked about putting them in cars but there are quite a few technical challenges. Bladon Jets made it work though, for other applications, they were a big customer of ours.

https://www.bladonmt.com

IIRC quite a lot of large-building office air-con systems are powered by turbines nowadays.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm somewhat gobsmacked that that scenario (towing an EV) wasn't considered and dealt with at project concept.

Oh it definitely is, and then filed under "reall 'ard"

There'd be a balance sort of calculation regarding complexity of implementing some sort of solution, performance knock ons (including price) and how likely it'd ever get used.

Adding a clutch - loads of space, cost and weight
Adding a neutral - loads of space, cost and weight
Adding some way of controlling the motor to not regen - as above, if the car is broken down, how would it even work?
And so on...

Plus the fact towing on motorways and highways is generally non-preferred anyway.