Pfizer vaccine approved

[slowsider]

The amount of anger towards anti-vaxers on t'internet is off the scale atm.

And rightly so.

Its like flat earth...but you know, with more risk of death.

But that's only cos flat-earthers don't go near the edge

[Buckaroo]

It sounds to me that you're saying PPE doesn't work.

Have you not read any of the stuff about hi viz?

I used to read Viz. Is this a better version? Fnaaa Fnaaa

[Saga Lout]

That's where you mistake me. I think your body, your choice. But I also think your choices come with consequences. So if by not having the vaccine, you cannot fly, travel by bus or train, go to the cinema, or eat out. I'm fine with that.

As it happens, I'm fine with not doing any of those things.

Me too. I haven't done any of those things since March. I can go another few months until the vaccine or vaccines have been thoroughly tested an all the unwitting guinea pigs.

Apparently, according to our ever so trustworthy government, the vaccine has been thoroughly tested in record and no corners were cut, just a few bits of red tape. Hang on, we're the people who refer to it as "red tape", the government usually refers to it as essential safety regulation.

I'll be offered the vaccine fairly early. I qualify as over 70 and extremely vulnerable. I think I'll pass, maybe until next year's flu season. I can carry on isolating until then.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It's all thanks to Brexit, gawd bless it, anyway!


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55163730

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has claimed Brexit allowed the UK to approve a Covid vaccine more quickly than other European Union (EU) countries.

Or perhaps not...

The EU - through the European Medicines Agency (EMA) - has yet to approve a coronavirus vaccine.

But the idea that Brexit enabled the UK to press ahead and authorise one is not right.

It was actually permitted under EU law, a point made by the head of the UK's medicines regulator on Wednesday.

[Nidge]

I'm 53 and I don't want it, I don't need a vaccine for something that isn't going to kill me and people who've had the vaccine will still carry it and transmit it.

How do you know it's not going to kill you?

Because I've had it

Had it as in clinically diagnosed, or had it as in “I definitely had a cough back January” ?

[Horse]

Because I've had it

Had it as in clinically diagnosed, or had it as in “I definitely had a cough back January” ?

And, although rare, there have been instances of people catching it twice.

[Wreckless Rat]

Because I've had it

Had it as in clinically diagnosed, or had it as in “I definitely had a cough back January” ?

And, although rare, there have been instances of people catching it twice.

And there is suggestion the second catching could be worse...a lot worse.

[demographic]

I keep hearing that this vaccine is hard to store and distribute but when we were on the farm we sometimes had our cattle artificially inseminated.
The AI chap used to rock up with a big glorified stainless steel flask filled with liquid nitrogen in the boot of their car. In the liquid nitrogen they had little straws full of bull spunk.
Long time ago but IIRC they warmed it up a bit then fired it into the cow.

The point of all that^ is that they were doing that in the 1970s, would this not work with the vaccine?

I'm likely missing something so don't mind at all being educated on it. Anyone?

[Mr. Dazzle]

My guess is that this nominal -70°C is exactly that....nominal. I say that because -70°C is suspiciously close to dry ice temperature and its very common to pack stuff and ship it in dry ice. It could be the vaccine is fine at -50°C for example but they just say -70°C cause that's a common storing and shipping temp.

On the face of it its not that complicated as you say. We used to get uncured carbon fibre shipped in dry ice all the time (only actually needs to be -25°C but see above). I've also used liquid nitrogen alot and again it's not too complicated.

The problem comes with using in volume when you don't have the procedures in place. You're not allowed to drive with LN2 in your boot any more AFAIK due to the danger of asphyxiation. And what happens in a crash? Same sorta thing with dry ice, it's not that tricky but leaving it in the corner of a sealed room won't do you any favours on the breathing front for example.

Them teeny tiny vials probably heat up a bit quick too, so getting them from a big freezer to a box to a van could be tricky. And does it need to be -70 right up to the last second, in which case how the hell do you administer it? Tiny freezer? So how do you keep that cold when you are always opening the door etc?

You can get to minus 70 with a conventional(ish) freezer, but you can't exactly nip down to curries and buy one.

[Horse]

I keep hearing that this vaccine is hard to store and distribute but when we were on the farm we sometimes had our cattle artificially inseminated.
The AI chap used to rock up with a big glorified stainless steel flask filled with liquid nitrogen in the boot of their car. In the liquid nitrogen they had little straws full of bull spunk.

The point of all that^ is that they were doing that in the 1970s, would this not work with the vaccine?

I'm likely missing something so don't mind at all being educated on it. Anyone?

How many cows? I doubt if it was a car boot and Thermos big enough for 60 million shots. Twice.

[Saga Lout]

My guess is that this nominal -70°C is exactly that....nominal. I say that because -70°C is suspiciously close to dry ice temperature and its very common to pack stuff and ship it in dry ice. It could be the vaccine is fine at -50°C for example but they just say -70°C cause that's a common storing and shipping temp.

That's the deadly carbon dioxide innit The vaccine is going to be free, but you'll have to buy carbon credits to offset the dry ice.

[gremlin]

I'm confused. When people are saying that they can shove their vaccine up their arse are we talking literally or what?

[Mr. Dazzle]

My guess is that this nominal -70°C is exactly that....nominal. I say that because -70°C is suspiciously close to dry ice temperature and its very common to pack stuff and ship it in dry ice. It could be the vaccine is fine at -50°C for example but they just say -70°C cause that's a common storing and shipping temp.

That's the deadly carbon dioxide innit The vaccine is going to be free, but you'll have to buy carbon credits to offset the dry ice.

Offset by the lack of beer sales.

[ogri]

Can be stored in an ordinary fridge if used withing a week i read on t'internet.
The two yank ones work with your immune syem, so if you are immune suppressed by drugs etc probably not any good for you (me).
The oxford one will probably be the one i am allowed, as/when/if it gets approval.

[chillitt]

Can be stored in an ordinary fridge if used withing a week i read on t'internet.
The two yank ones work with your immune syem, so if you are immune suppressed by drugs etc probably not any good for you (me).
The oxford one will probably be the one i am allowed, as/when/if it gets approval.

I've had that thought at the back of my mind too.. They must all work with the immune system, but no idea what happens if your immune system is busy mullering your lungs. or legs/ For example..

[Gedge]

My guess is that this nominal -70°C is exactly that....nominal. I say that because -70°C is suspiciously close to dry ice temperature and its very common to pack stuff and ship it in dry ice. It could be the vaccine is fine at -50°C for example but they just say -70°C cause that's a common storing and shipping temp.

On the face of it its not that complicated as you say. We used to get uncured carbon fibre shipped in dry ice all the time (only actually needs to be -25°C but see above). I've also used liquid nitrogen alot and again it's not too complicated.

The problem comes with using in volume when you don't have the procedures in place. You're not allowed to drive with LN2 in your boot any more AFAIK due to the danger of asphyxiation. And what happens in a crash? Same sorta thing with dry ice, it's not that tricky but leaving it in the corner of a sealed room won't do you any favours on the breathing front for example.

Them teeny tiny vials probably heat up a bit quick too, so getting them from a big freezer to a box to a van could be tricky. And does it need to be -70 right up to the last second, in which case how the hell do you administer it? Tiny freezer? So how do you keep that cold when you are always opening the door etc?

You can get to minus 70 with a conventional(ish) freezer, but you can't exactly nip down to curries and buy one.

It can be kept in a normal fridge or freezer but must be used within 5 days ..the logistical problem at the moment appears to be that it is only authorised to be sent in batches of around 900 , and they haven’t authorised the packs to be broken down smaller so risks a lot if wastage if they sent a pack to a Care home for only 100 doses ..no doubt it will be sorted after a few runs ..

[Bwana]

Dude, of course the vaccine will stop you from spreading it because you won't develop the disease (and therefore won't carry it).
It's in the best interests of everyone that the majority take it to achieve herd immunity, as we have done against smallpox, polio, tuberculosis etc. Herd immunity has NEVER been gained against anything without a vaccine.
Don't listen to conspiracy theories on it, most of the people making the most noise can't grasp basic chemistry.
The government might be corrupt, but without the masses they have no one to fleece and pay for their mistakes

You can carry a disease without developing it
So the Human population as no immunity to any disease there's no vaccine for?

Immunity is a rather complex concept.
Whether or not someone develops disease after exposure to an infectious agent hinges upon many things. Their general health being a huge factor. The dose (number of viral particles or bacteria depending upon the disease) also has a role in determining whether or not one individual develops disease.

Your immune system consists of more than just the ability to develop antibodies to an agent. That is specific immunity that is imparted by exposure to a disease causing agent or vaccination. There are a number of other steps in the process to get to the development of antibodies. If the agent arrives in small quantities it might not even make it through the door so to speak. Agents are recognized as foreign and non-specific immune functions deal with them. If those non-specific functions are overwhelmed the invading agent gets into the system and shit happens.

For an individual to start shedding virus it has to set up shop and start replicating. For COVID this occurs before clinical signs arise. That contributes to the ease of spread through a population.

Vaccines come in a variety of forms. Killed, modified live, and vaccines that only contain a portion of the infectious agent, typically a surface antigen that will provoke antibody production specific for that surface antigen so the body's immune system can do its thing.

You might begin to wonder if getting the disease naturally has the potential to impart the same immune results that getting the jab gives. You'd correct to assume that it does. For you a vaccination may not be necessary.* Natural infection imparts varying degrees of immune responses, dose and host dependent. Likewise for vaccines. One individual may not really respond. Vaccinating an entire population, or at least a significant portion of it, gives that individual protection as it decreases the likelihood of them getting exposed to someone shedding the agent.

*duration of immunity is important, so at some point you may need it to remain protected. Time will tell about duration as more people are vaccinated.

I do find it rather amusing that the risk of adverse reaction is enough to get some people to swear off the vaccination. Especially if they're healthy and good candidates for it. You're at greater risk riding a motorcycle.

Deaths following vaccination: What does the evidence show?

Odds of Dying

[Bwana]

So vaxxers, what are you going to do when the virus mutates into something the vaccine can't deal with?

I do find it odd that some people are so offended that I don't want to take the vaccine and want to force me to take it, surely if everyone who wants to take the vaccine takes it they'll be protected and those that don't accept the risk?

You seem to have an aversion to being vaccinated. Why?

Viruses mutate, vaccines are made in response. See influenza vaccines That's if the mutation dictates the need. If the surface protein that the vaccine uses to impart immunity remains constant the mutation is irrelevant as far as the vaccine is concerned.

The problem isn't that you are taking a risk. You're potentially exposing others by not getting vaccinated. You actually may not need the vaccine as you may have adequate immunity. For a while.

[Bwana]

I keep hearing that this vaccine is hard to store and distribute but when we were on the farm we sometimes had our cattle artificially inseminated.
The AI chap used to rock up with a big glorified stainless steel flask filled with liquid nitrogen in the boot of their car. In the liquid nitrogen they had little straws full of bull spunk.
Long time ago but IIRC they warmed it up a bit then fired it into the cow.

The point of all that^ is that they were doing that in the 1970s, would this not work with the vaccine?

I'm likely missing something so don't mind at all being educated on it. Anyone?

How big was that container and how many jizz straws did it contain?

[demographic]

How big was that container and how many jizz straws did it contain?

It was yonks ago so I've only a hazy memory of it.
Mebbe a foot outside diameter and six inch ID?
Never looked inside so dunno how many but they were this so I'd imagine a good number.


I'd be amazed if it wasnt enough in number for a care home were it vaccine instead of bull jizz.

You'll have seen the setup will you?