Israel's war with Hamas (and other Iran proxies)

[Cousin Jack]

Here's a fact.

Benjamin Netanyahu has an arrest warrant out for his war crimes.

Does that make him guilty?

No, it means he has a case to answer. He might be innocent, I personally doubt it, but that is just my opinion.

[demographic]

Here's a fact.

Benjamin Netanyahu has an arrest warrant out for his war crimes.

Does that make him guilty?

Not automatically, but what it does do is lessen plausible deniability for governments complicit in supporting what's happening. So far its working a treat in some countries and less well with America. If I've heard it right theres still flights going from Cyprus doing electronic surveillance and others were delivering weapons to Israel. Our brave boys eh? Always ready to help make war on people arrmed with a wickidly sharp piece of watermellon*

*deliberate slight misquote, two points for guessing where its from.

[irie]

Here's a fact.

Benjamin Netanyahu has an arrest warrant out for his war crimes.

Does that make him guilty?

Not automatically, but what it does do is lessen plausible deniability for governments complicit in supporting what's happening. So far its working a treat in some countries and less well with America. If I've heard it right theres still flights going from Cyprus doing electronic surveillance and others were delivering weapons to Israel. Our brave boys eh? Always ready to help make war on people arrmed with a wickidly sharp piece of watermellon*

*deliberate slight misquote, two points for guessing where its from.

It changes precisely nothing, it's yet another meaningless soundbite from the paper tiger ICC.

[Cousin Jack]

So that nice chap Netanyahu now seems to have 'accidentally' invaded Syria.

[MingtheMerciless]

They've been bombing the Syrian Navy.....just in case the militants are on their ships.

[Cousin Jack]

According to one news source they were within a few miles of Damascus.

[irie]

Naughty Hamas has been manipulating casualty data, who'd have thunkit, eh?

QUESTIONABLE COUNTING: ANALYSING THE DEATH TOLL FROM THE HAMAS-RUN MINISTRY OF HEALTH IN GAZA

https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publica ... -counting/

Key Findings

Men listed as women to inflate female fatalities.

Analysis of Gaza Ministry of Health (MoH) fatality data reveals repeated instances of men being misclassified as women. Examples include individuals with male first names (e.g. Mohammed) being recorded as female. This misclassification contributes to the narrative that civilian populations, particularly women and children, bear the brunt of the conflict, potentially influencing international sentiment and media coverage.

Adults registered as children.

Significant discrepancies have been uncovered where adult fatalities are reclassified as children. For instance, an individual aged 22 was listed as a fouryear-old and a 31-year-old was listed as an infant. Such distortions inflate the number of child casualties, which is emotionally impactful and heavily emphasised in global reporting. These misrepresentations suggest a deliberate attempt to frame the conflict as disproportionately affecting children, undermining the credibility of the fatality data.

Disproportionate deaths of fighting-age men.

Data analysis indicates that most fatalities are men aged 15–45, contradicting claims that civilian populations are being disproportionately targeted. This age demographic aligns closely with the expected profile of combatants, further supported by spikes in deaths of men reported by family sources rather than hospitals. This evidence suggests that many fatalities classified as civilian may be combatants, a distinction omitted from official reporting.

Inclusion of natural deaths in reporting.

Despite the typical annual rate of 5,000 natural deaths in Gaza, the fatality data provides no accounting for such figures. This omission raises concerns that natural deaths, as well as deaths caused by internal violence or misfired rockets, are being included in war-related fatality counts. Instances of cancer patients, previously registered for treatment, appearing on war fatality lists further support this assertion. Such practices inflate the reported civilian death toll, complicating accurate assessments of the conflict’s impact.

Media underreporting of combatant deaths.

Analysis of media coverage reveals that only 3% of news stories reference combatant deaths, with outlets like the BBC, CNN, Reuters and The New York Times primarily relying on Gaza Ministry of Health figures. These figures often lack verification and fail to distinguish between combatants and civilians. The omission creates a skewed narrative that portrays all casualties as civilian, thus shaping public opinion and international policy based on incomplete or manipulated data. For example, more than 17,000 Hamas combatants are estimated to have been killed, yet these figures are largely excluded from global reporting.

[Count Steer]

Ah yes, the Henry Jackson Society. A bastion of balanced commentary, named after an American Democrat, that morphed into an organisation that 'relentlessly demonised Muslims and Islam' according to a co-founder.

Next!!

[demographic]

"According to news reports some IDF officers did since December. from Times of Israel about AP report: "Reports citing anonymous Israeli officials in both AP and AFP say that the IDF believes the overall Gaza death toll claimed by Hamas is fairly accurate, and that more civilians have been killed than Hamas operatives". timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/… –
Levinas
CommentedJan 24 at 20:35

[irie]

Ah yes, the Henry Jackson Society. A bastion of balanced commentary, named after an American Democrat, that morphed into an organisation that 'relentlessly demonised Muslims and Islam' according to a co-founder.

Next!!

Ah yes, ignore the statistics, not for the first time your prejudices come first.

[irie]

"According to news reports some IDF officers did since December. from Times of Israel about AP report: "Reports citing anonymous Israeli officials in both AP and AFP say that the IDF believes the overall Gaza death toll claimed by Hamas is fairly accurate, and that more civilians have been killed than Hamas operatives". timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/… –
Levinas
CommentedJan 24 at 20:35

Another who ignores the statistics. Don't do numbers do you?

[Count Steer]

Ah yes, the Henry Jackson Society. A bastion of balanced commentary, named after an American Democrat, that morphed into an organisation that 'relentlessly demonised Muslims and Islam' according to a co-founder.

Next!!

Ah yes, ignore the statistics, not for the first time your prejudices come first.

Statistics, damn lies and statistics. Find me an analysis by some statisticians that aren't busy grinding axes and perhaps I won't ignore them. Prejudices? Pah. Science, objectivity please. It was your prejudice that lead to the finding and posting of the article so don't try playing that card on me Sonny Jim.

[demographic]

"According to news reports some IDF officers did since December. from Times of Israel about AP report: "Reports citing anonymous Israeli officials in both AP and AFP say that the IDF believes the overall Gaza death toll claimed by Hamas is fairly accurate, and that more civilians have been killed than Hamas operatives". timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/… –
Levinas
CommentedJan 24 at 20:35

Another who ignores the statistics. Don't do numbers do you?

I'm not so bad on numbers, it's easy to work out anything as long as I put a pound sign in front of the numbe, but I'm guessing just don't do humanity do you?

That quote I used about the gaza health ministry was from The Times of Israel...

Anyway, this from Amnesty International.
"Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza
Amnesty International’s research has found sufficient basis to conclude that Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip, the organization said in a landmark new report published today.

The report, ‘You Feel Like You Are Subhuman’: Israel’s Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza, documents how, during its military offensive launched in the wake of the deadly Hamas-led attacks in southern Israel on 7 October 2023, Israel has unleashed hell and destruction on Palestinians in Gaza brazenly, continuously and with total impunity.

“Amnesty International’s report demonstrates that Israel has carried out acts prohibited under the Genocide Convention, with the specific intent to destroy Palestinians in Gaza. These acts include killings, causing serious bodily or mental harm and deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. Month after month, Israel has treated Palestinians in Gaza as a subhuman group unworthy of human rights and dignity, demonstrating its intent to physically destroy them,” said Agnès Callamard, Secretary General of Amnesty International. 

“Our damning findings must serve as a wake-up call to the international community: this is genocide. It must stop now.

“States that continue to transfer arms to Israel at this time must know they are violating their obligation to prevent genocide and are at risk of becoming complicit in genocide. All states with influence over Israel, particularly key arms suppliers like the USA and Germany, but also other EU member states, the UK and others, must act now to bring Israel’s atrocities against Palestinians in Gaza to an immediate end.”

Over the past two months the crisis has grown particularly acute in the North Gaza governorate, where a besieged population is facing starvation, displacement and annihilation amid relentless bombardment and suffocating restrictions on life-saving humanitarian aid.

“Our research reveals that, for months, Israel has persisted in committing genocidal acts, fully aware of the irreparable harm it was inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza. It continued to do so in defiance of countless warnings about the catastrophic humanitarian situation and of legally binding decisions from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordering Israel to take immediate measures to enable the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza,” said Agnès Callamard. 

“Israel has repeatedly argued that its actions in Gaza are lawful and can be justified by its military goal to eradicate Hamas. But genocidal intent can co-exist alongside military goals and does not need to be Israel’s sole intent.”


Then this, which shows that Holocaust survivors are aginst the current genocide being perpetrated against the people of Gaza.



Dozens of Holocaust survivors, together with hundreds of descendants of Holocaust survivors and victims, have accused Israel of “genocide” for the deaths of more than 2,000 Palestinians in Gaza since the conflict erupted in July.

In an open letter released by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network and published as an advert in The New York Times, the group calls for a full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel over its “wholesale effort to destroy Gaza”.

“Genocide begins with the silence of the world,” the statement reads, “We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people.”

The statement also condemns the United States for its financial and diplomatic support of Israel.

The signatories express alarm at “the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever pitch.”

[demographic]

Oh and this study which calculates the veracity of the Gaza Health Ministry numbers is worth a read for anyone who is incapable (or nust plain unwilling) to look at a totally destroyed city and imagining that the people will have been killed there.


"How reliable are the death tolls from the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza? It has been one of the enduring questions of the war, with the MoH producing the widely used figure of more than 38,000 Palestinians killed to date.

Israeli officials have repeatedly disputed the civilian toll - highlighting the MoH’s Hamas connections and publicly claiming its numbers are false. US President Joe Biden also initially said he had “no confidence” in the death tolls. In response, the ministry has periodically released lists of names and IDs of Palestinians killed.

In the largest and most in-depth public analysis of the MoH data yet, Airwars used open source monitoring to independently identify nearly 3,000 full names of civilian victims killed in the first 17 days of the war. Every name is listed below, linked to individual reports detailing where and how they died. Where possible the reports include personal stories of lives lost.

By comparing those victims' names with the first list produced by the MoH, this investigation found a high correlation between the official MoH data and what Palestinian civilians reported online - with 75% of publicly reported names also appearing on the MoH list.

This painstaking research provides strong validation for both the first Ministry of Health list of the dead and the reliability of social media posts from Palestinian

[irie]

Ah yes, the Henry Jackson Society. A bastion of balanced commentary, named after an American Democrat, that morphed into an organisation that 'relentlessly demonised Muslims and Islam' according to a co-founder.

Next!!

Ah yes, ignore the statistics, not for the first time your prejudices come first.

Statistics, damn lies and statistics. Find me an analysis by some statisticians that aren't busy grinding axes and perhaps I won't ignore them. Prejudices? Pah. Science, objectivity please. It was your prejudice that lead to the finding and posting of the article so don't try playing that card on me Sonny Jim.

Both you and demo have axes to grind and your prejudices precede you. Don't want to let the numbers aka statistics get in the way of your beliefs.

[demographic]

The thread title shows who has an axe to grind just incase anyone was wondering.

[demographic]

Oh and Irie, nothing to say about actual holocaust survivors who are appalled by Israels current genocide?
Just ignoring those old guys are you? Their lived experiences and opinions dont matter?

[mangocrazy]

I'm at a loss to understand how anyone with an ounce of humanity in their soul can look at the devastation that Israel has wreaked on Palestine and not say 'this has gone way too far, stop it immediately'.

[Count Steer]

Ah yes, ignore the statistics, not for the first time your prejudices come first.

Statistics, damn lies and statistics. Find me an analysis by some statisticians that aren't busy grinding axes and perhaps I won't ignore them. Prejudices? Pah. Science, objectivity please. It was your prejudice that lead to the finding and posting of the article so don't try playing that card on me Sonny Jim.

Both you and demo have axes to grind and your prejudices precede you. Don't want to let the numbers aka statistics get in the way of your beliefs.

Methinks you would do well to read the parable of the mote and the beam.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

[wheelnut]

Statistics, damn lies and statistics. Find me an analysis by some statisticians that aren't busy grinding axes and perhaps I won't ignore them. Prejudices? Pah. Science, objectivity please. It was your prejudice that lead to the finding and posting of the article so don't try playing that card on me Sonny Jim.

Both you and demo have axes to grind and your prejudices precede you. Don't want to let the numbers aka statistics get in the way of your beliefs.

Methinks you would do well to read the parable of the mote and the beam.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

He seems to be too busy using laughing smilies to quantify the loss of life and devastation in that part of the world.