WTF- Shakey jumps on the gravy train....

[Bustaspoke]

Sheene sued Silverstone for £300k after hid 1981 crash.
He proved that the marshal's flag was down as he came over the rise and had no warning about the crashed 125 lying on the track.

Pedant alert
No wonder the marshall's flag was down in 1981,the accident happened in. 1982 & he hit Patrick Igoa's 250.
I also got my facts wrong,I thought it was Rugia's 250,fortunatley the internet put me right

[Yorick]

Sheene sued Silverstone for £300k after hid 1981 crash.
He proved that the marshal's flag was down as he came over the rise and had no warning about the crashed 125 lying on the track.

Pedant alert
No wonder the marshall's flag was down in 1981,the accident happened in. 1982 & he hit Patrick Igoa's 250.
I also got my facts wrong,I thought it was Rugia's 250,fortunatley the internet put me right

Oops. I was sure it was a 125 as there were complaints that it shouldn't have been out with the 500s.

[Bustaspoke]

I think a 125 seized,Igoa hit it & Sheene ploughed into the stricken 250,carnage

[Yorick]

I think a 125 seized,Igoa hit it & Sheene ploughed into the stricken 250,carnage

Was my first season racing and to us brats he had almost god-like status.

[Horse]

Probably worth remembering that Shakey was at work, not riding for the fun of it like trackdayers and club racers.

Does that work-hobby distinction make any difference, or occur, anywhere else?

[Cousin Jack]

Probably worth remembering that Shakey was at work, not riding for the fun of it like trackdayers and club racers.

Does that work-hobby distinction make any difference, or occur, anywhere else?

It should do. A novice trackday rider is not an expert and cannot be expected to accurately assess risk. He should be able to rely on the organizers to mitigate more extreme risks. A professional racer IS an expert, and can be said to have seen and accepted the risks.

[Horse]

Probably worth remembering that Shakey was at work, not riding for the fun of it like trackdayers and club racers.

Does that work-hobby distinction make any difference, or occur, anywhere else?

It should do. A novice trackday rider is not an expert and cannot be expected to accurately assess risk. He should be able to rely on the organizers to mitigate more extreme risks. A professional racer IS an expert, and can be said to have seen and accepted the risks.

I was concerned about the opposite situation - ie (if I read KFB properly) that an amateur shouldn't expect the level of protection afforded to a professional.

From my work experience, which sometimes involved members of the public, there would be no differentiation in risk to either public or staff.

[Horse]

FWIW, when Silverstone was remodelled (15-20 years ago?) run off areas etc were designed around likely places that vehicles might leave the track and distances they might be expected to travel.

[weeksy]

FWIW, when Silverstone was remodelled (15-20 years ago?) run off areas etc were designed around likely places that vehicles might leave the track and distances they might be expected to travel.

Well yes, however then cars and bikes got wayyyyy faster and more powerful, so may be not as valid now

[Horse]

FWIW, when Silverstone was remodelled (15-20 years ago?) run off areas etc were designed around likely places that vehicles might leave the track and distances they might be expected to travel.

Well yes, however then cars and bikes got wayyyyy faster and more powerful, so may be not as valid now

Yup, it was possibly part of the redesign to slow them down too.

But the principle was: risk assessed, identified and mitigated.

[Horse]

Probably worth remembering that Shakey was at work, not riding for the fun of it like trackdayers and club racers.

Does that work-hobby distinction make any difference, or occur, anywhere else?

It should do. A novice trackday rider is not an expert and cannot be expected to accurately assess risk. He should be able to rely on the organizers to mitigate more extreme risks. A professional racer IS an expert, and can be said to have seen and accepted the risks.

From Alan's track day thread:

Been a great run but to be honest - with costings all heading upwards and the Shakey aftermarth to come into effect - well, we've had the best out of it.

Seems this could have a wide effect.

[mangocrazy]

From Alan's track day thread:

Been a great run but to be honest - with costings all heading upwards and the Shakey aftermarth to come into effect - well, we've had the best out of it.

Seems this could have a wide effect.

I'd say that Shakey has (probably unwittingly) lobbed a gurt big hand grenade into the UK Track day marketplace.

[Horse]

From Alan's track day thread:

Been a great run but to be honest - with costings all heading upwards and the Shakey aftermarth to come into effect - well, we've had the best out of it.

Seems this could have a wide effect.

I'd say that Shakey has (probably unwittingly) lobbed a gurt big hand grenade into the UK Track day marketplace.

Unwittingly? I very much doubt that, unless his legal team never thought to say "Errr, you do realise ... "

[mangocrazy]

From Alan's track day thread:



Seems this could have a wide effect.

I'd say that Shakey has (probably unwittingly) lobbed a gurt big hand grenade into the UK Track day marketplace.

Unwittingly? I very much doubt that, unless his legal team never thought to say "Errr, you do realise ... "

Guess so; racers are a selfish breed and looking after number one is always top of their agenda. He could rapidly achieve pariah status...

[Alan PBTD]

On the Shakey format I think the following applies - and currently don't know the answer - and it's my thoughts

1.0 There's no differance in the safety facilities provided @ circuits whatever the bike event ( i.e BSB / Club Meeting / TD's ). If there was ( say air bag fencing ) it would never stand up in court. As we've seen....
Claimants have up to 6 years to file a claim and now Shakey's case will be quoted in all clamis - which as the judge ruled incorrect barriers were installed the time of the accident (and I wonder who made that decision at that point in time ???)

2.0 Any Circuit needs a permit / licence to operate. Race meetings are governed by ACU / MSA etc - TD's are governed by the circuit's general permits ( ie with landowners / circuit operators etc ) and the TDO's PL / Insurance policy.

Now this is were the fun starts. At the end of the ''claim chain'' it all comes back to the legal beagles and the insurance underriters / ins policy. They may say ( under guidence / further advise ) that XYZ barriers must be in place ( and signed off under inspection ). The circuits operators will argue the extent of XYZ as they will have to pay for it ( and then pass the costs on to their customers..)

3.0 So the permits / licences are issued to the circuits and the ''Hirers'' ( TDO / Race Club etc ) are potenitally faced with increased ''Hire Fees''

4.0 The the same with a ACU licenced / permit event - they have to have ins cover as well - and shedloads of procedures (aka ACU Blue Book )

5.0 And all these new procedures / Risk assesments etc have to be written up and checked by legal teams and signed off - so who pays for that ?

6.0 And for further fun - The circuit management will have to decide - if they increase the coverage ( length ) of air fencing ( or simular ) where exactly does it go and how much - length - they do. They know the high risk area's ( and I do at Pembrey ) but it's not straight forward.

7.0 OR they just have a chat about it - do some rough sums - conclude this is a lot of ball ache and then say ''We're not having anything to do with bikes''.

Which could happen.

Cheers !

[Tricky]

Shakey's case judgement doc is here - an interesting read IMO, - provides a lot of detail and background.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... .11.24.pdf

[Horse]

Shakey's case judgement doc is here - an interesting read IMO, - provides a lot of detail and background.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... .11.24.pdf

Long read, very interesting tho'

[Mr. Dazzle]

That's the bit of law I was trying to remember when I said disclaimers are basically worthless...

Further, I have to bear in mind section 2(3) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, which reads:

“Where a contract term or notice purports to…restrict liability for negligence a person’s agreement to or awareness of it is not of itself to be taken as indicating his voluntary acceptance of any risk.”

Even if the defendants had satisfied me that Mr Byrne had signed one of their notices that day, I would not have concluded that the claimant had indicated his voluntary acceptance of the risks which I have to assess in this case.

[Bigyin]

OR they just have a chat about it - do some rough sums - conclude this is a lot of ball ache and then say ''We're not having anything to do with bikes''.

Which could happen.

Cheers !

Sorry to read elsewhere that PB trackdays will no longer run at Pembrey. Thank you for all you did for us lot over the years, making new people feel welcome and generally being a top bloke

[Alan PBTD]

Cheers Bigyin - we've had some interesting chats over the years !

and on the Shakey topic - had a first read but got the impression that Shakeys team won about 4 - 0 and MSV etc had a right hammering. Compensation will be the next thing and it looks like MSV etc better have deep pockets as they are in for a hammering.

Do view Shakey in a slightly different light now - reading this and don't quite get why the case actually focused so much on the actual design of the corner and love the bit when the Judge states ''just because an accident hasn't happened ( at said corner ) it's acceptable that you do the minimum requirements''

There's a lot of fall out heading the circuits way...