Israel's war with Hamas (and other Iran proxies)

[JackyJoll]

For something so meaningless issued by a paper tiger etc it seems to have upset the Israeli government rather a lot. Maybe they're just over-sensitive.

I never know when foreign politicians are really “upset rather a lot.”

Certainly can’t tell by things they say publicly.

[demographic]

Boing, thought I'd inject a little humour into this thread as John Oliver covered some details.
One of the many things he mentions is that although some Israeli settlments on Palestinian land are called Illegal and some Legal in the eyes of Israeli law, in the eyes of International Law, theyre all illegal.
It also covers some aspects of the previous genocide in 1948.
Worth a watch IMO.

[irie]

Boing, thought I'd inject a little humour into this thread as John Oliver covered some details.
One of the many things he mentions is that although some Israeli settlments on Palestinian land are called Illegal and some Legal in the eyes of Israeli law, in the eyes of International Law, theyre all illegal.
It also covers some aspects of the previous genocide in 1948.
Worth a watch IMO.

If that passes as humour for you then you have problems.

Oh.

[demographic]

Nothing to add to that, any facts to add or is it just childish skits?
Here, I'll show you how...
Over a thousand UK legal scholars sign open letter regarding Gaza


"London

03 April 2024

We are UK-based or qualified lawyers, legal academics and former members of the judiciary committed to upholding the rule of law and to protecting fundamental rights; and who share deep concern about the catastrophe unfolding in the Gaza Strip.

In a letter dated 26 October 2023, over a thousand members of the legal profession wrote to you concerning your Government’s obligations to avert and avoid complicity in serious breaches of International Humanitarian Law (“IHL”) in Gaza.

Since that letter, there have been significant developments in relation to the situation in Gaza. These include the provisional order of the International Court of Justice dated 26 January 2024, by which the Court concluded that there was a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza; UN Security Council Resolution 2728 on 25 March 2024 demanding an immediate ceasefire during the month of Ramadan; and the worsening situation in Gaza, where the UN and international aid agencies warn of imminent famine, and where a ground offensive is threatened in Rafah, the last place of refuge for two-thirds of the population.

We write in the light of these developments to remind you of your Government’s obligations under international law, which require you to take, amongst others, the following five actions:

to work actively and effectively to secure a permanent ceasefire in Gaza;
to take all available measures to ensure safe access to and delivery of the essentials of existence and medical assistance to Palestinians in Gaza, including confirmation that UK funding to UNRWA will continue with immediate effect;
to impose sanctions upon individuals and entities who have made statements inciting genocide against Palestinians;
to suspend the provision of weapons and weapons systems to the Government of Israel; and
to suspend the 2030 Road Map for UK-Israel bilateral relations and negotiations towards an enhanced trade agreement and to initiate a review into the suspension of the UK’s bilateral trade agreement with Israel and consider the imposition of sanctions."

[irie]

Perhaps the above lawyers would care to investigate the following human rights abuses? Which is reported by Israeli sources so must be lies, mustn't it? Oh ...

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-828381

WATCH: Hamas brutally tortures Gazans, IDF footage reveals.

The materials were recovered by IDF soldiers during operations in the Gaza Strip.

[Cousin Jack]

Hammas is a terrorist organisation.
Israel is becoming a terrorist state.

Take your pick, both reprehensible.

[JackyJoll]

Hammas is a terrorist organisation.
Israel is becoming a terrorist state.

Take your pick, both reprehensible.

I pick the first bit, about Hamas. It’s true.

[Cousin Jack]

Hammas is a terrorist organisation.
Israel is becoming a terrorist state.

Take your pick, both reprehensible.

I pick the first bit, about Hamas. It’s true.

Both are true. You only get to pick your preference, the truth is as stated.

[JackyJoll]

Hammas is a terrorist organisation.
Israel is becoming a terrorist state.

Take your pick, both reprehensible.

I pick the first bit, about Hamas. It’s true.

Both are true. You only get to pick your preference, the truth is as stated.

You only get to decide your own opinions.

[Cousin Jack]

I pick the first bit, about Hamas. It’s true.

Both are true. You only get to pick your preference, the truth is as stated.

You only get to decide your own opinions.

Yebut facts are facts.
Hammas is defined as a terrorist state by half the world. And it's stated ambition is the destruction of Israel.
Israel has a long history of grabbing land from its owners on the West Bank. And it's recent 'military' campaigns are killing 70% civilians. If it looks like genocide and sounds like genocide it probably is genocide.

[Screwdriver]

And it's recent 'military' campaigns are killing 70% civilians. If it looks like genocide and sounds like genocide it probably is genocide.

Wow. Talk about getting your numbers mixed up.

The claim (made by Hamas!) which relates to that number is the percentage of women+children killed in combat activities. Not the total.

Might help if Hamas didn't keep hiding their military under schools, private dwellings and hospitals.

For balance Israel is saying their campaign has the lowest level of collateral damage for any similar conflict. That's becaiuse incredibly, they give out warnings before any major strike.

The truth, as ever, will be somewhere in between those claims of course.

[JackyJoll]

Israel has decided to beat Hamas in a war that Hamas started. Beating Hamas means killing them, unless or until they lay down their arms and surrender.

Killing Hamas fighters means killing a lot of people around them, especially if Israel wants to minimise its own casualties.

I know of no dependable source of casualty numbers among civilians, but it’s a high number. That’s as tragic as anything in the World, but waving stupid flags and abusing rabbis in London is pathetic behaviour.

[irie]

What people generally don't know is:

In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank. In 2007, Hamas led a military victory over Fatah, the secular Palestinian nationalist party, which had dominated the Palestinian National Authority.

In the almost 20 years since then all the tunnels and offensive position built by Hamas were widely known about and tacitly accepted by the Gaza population.

I have no irons in this fire, but the repeated cries of injustice by the Gaza population do not ring true. Nasty business.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_g ... 0Authority.

[Cousin Jack]

And just as the Israel/Gaza/Lebanon unpleasantness shows signs of maybe/perhaps simmering down a bit, another Islamist terrorist group kicks off in Syria.

Wouldn't it be nice if the region that is the birthplace of 3 major religions would just stop for a bit.

[Screwdriver]

Well if Syria becomes an Islamic state, there might be somewhere for all the Palestinians to go. Nobody else will have them for obvious reasons. Guess it depends on exactly which flavour of Islamic extremism they support. Have no real interest in the religious nonsense regarding Shia/Sunni, does anyone know what this latest terror regime will develop?

Google suggests Sunni but ex IS/ISIS/Al Nusra/Al Queda I can’t keep up with all these euphemisms for barbaric evil creatures that would make Satan blush.

Shame because I quite enjoyed living and working in Syria. The people are quite incredibly friendly so long as you observe the local customs. Never got killed once (had a few close calls) and a quick spell in an Iraqi jail after accidentally straying over the border onto a secret military base was a life experience I’ll not forget in a hurry.

No idea if the Palestinian refugee idea is even a possibility but one thing’s for sure, if Assad has been successfully ousted now that Russia can’t help him regain power, the entire area has become somewhat more chaotic. This is a huge development….

[demographic]

What people generally don't know is:

In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank. In 2007, Hamas led a military victory over Fatah, the secular Palestinian nationalist party, which had dominated the Palestinian National Authority.

In the almost 20 years since then all the tunnels and offensive position built by Hamas were widely known about and tacitly accepted by the Gaza population.

I have no irons in this fire, but the repeated cries of injustice by the Gaza population do not ring true. Nasty business.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_g ... 0Authority.

Cries of injustice?
So are you suggesting that there's NOT over 40 thousand Palestinians been killed by Israel? That Israel hasn't been systematically wiping the population out, starving them to death, not allowing medicines in? Y'know, all the crimes against humanity stuff?

Cos I'm pretty sure there's a current ICC case about this you might have heard about.

[irie]

What people generally don't know is:

In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank. In 2007, Hamas led a military victory over Fatah, the secular Palestinian nationalist party, which had dominated the Palestinian National Authority.

In the almost 20 years since then all the tunnels and offensive position built by Hamas were widely known about and tacitly accepted by the Gaza population.

I have no irons in this fire, but the repeated cries of injustice by the Gaza population do not ring true. Nasty business.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_g ... 0Authority.

Cries of injustice?
So are you suggesting that there's NOT over 40 thousand Palestinians been killed by Israel? That Israel hasn't been systematically wiping the population out, starving them to death, not allowing medicines in? Y'know, all the crimes against humanity stuff?

Cos I'm pretty sure there's a current ICC case about this you might have heard about.

I have quotes facts, as ever you are doing the suggesting.

[Cousin Jack]

Here's a fact.

Benjamin Netanyahu has an arrest warrant out for his war crimes.

[JackyJoll]

Here's a fact.

Benjamin Netanyahu has an arrest warrant out for his war crimes.

A fact about paperwork.

[Yambo]

Here's a fact.

Benjamin Netanyahu has an arrest warrant out for his war crimes.

Does that make him guilty?