Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

[KungFooBob]

Whose troops are firing the UK & US long range missiles into Russia? It sure as fuck isn't the Ukrainians

Then why are we training so many Ukrainian troops to do this stuff in the UK?

[Mussels]

Whose troops are firing the UK & US long range missiles into Russia? It sure as fuck isn't the Ukrainians

Why not, Ukraine has had storm shadow missiles for some time, they are air launched and I doubt they are using NATO pilots.

[ZRX61]

Whose troops are firing the UK & US long range missiles into Russia? It sure as fuck isn't the Ukrainians

Then why are we training so many Ukrainian troops to do this stuff in the UK?

Maybe Starmer allowed Ukraine access to the technology of the system, but the US didn't.

[wheelnut]

Whose troops are firing the UK & US long range missiles into Russia? It sure as fuck isn't the Ukrainians

Why? I would imagine it’s the same weapons they’ve been using for a while just with a software tweak.

[Count Steer]

You mean that they don't just tilt the milk bottle and light the blue touch paper any more?

[Druid]

Whose troops are firing the UK & US long range missiles into Russia? It sure as fuck isn't the Ukrainians

Then why are we training so many Ukrainian troops to do this stuff in the UK?

Maybe Starmer allowed Ukraine access to the technology of the system, but the US didn't.

Storm Shadows were first supplied to Ukraine in May 2023 when there was a Conservative governmant and Sunak was PM. As I understand it the missile is a Franco-British project so why would the US have any control over its deployment?

I know your political views are somewhat more right wing than many on this board but it might help your cause if you were to at least check the facts before posting

[Bustaspoke]

Storm Shadows were first supplied to Ukraine in May 2023 when there was a Conservative governmant and Sunak was PM. As I understand it the missile is a Franco-British project so why would the US have any control over its deployment?

I know your political views are somewhat more right wing than many on this board but it might help your cause if you were to at least check the facts before posting

I'm pretty sure but not 100% that Storm Shadow & Scalp-EG have some US componentry in the system & that's why US permission is required.
Has anyone else noticed far more military helicopters in the air recently? It's noticeable around here,West Lancs.We usually see a few chinooks every month but these are the smaller gunship/ attack types usually flying in pairs,for the last couple of months it's become a almost daily occurance & we were wondering if theyr'e training Ukrainians.

[ZRX61]

Storm Shadows were first supplied to Ukraine in May 2023 when there was a Conservative governmant and Sunak was PM. As I understand it the missile is a Franco-British project so why would the US have any control over its deployment?

I know your political views are somewhat more right wing than many on this board but it might help your cause if you were to at least check the facts before posting

I didn't say the US had any control over the UK missiles, I was talking about US control over the US missile tech

[Desmodromic]

I'm sure the StormShadow will be programmed i.e. have the targeting information uploaded by the UK, I think they are then released by the Ukraine air force. it will probably use US satellites to see where its going. I'm not sure we have our own satellites yet.

I'm not up to date with Galileo, which is the European GPS system which was also going to be used by the military.

I've seen commentators say that StormShadow is 30 year old technology but that Ukraine will not get any new stuff, by which they mean the up to date stuff.

[demographic]

I'm sure the StormShadow will be programmed i.e. have the targeting information uploaded by the UK, I think they are then released by the Ukraine air force. it will probably use US satellites to see where its going. I'm not sure we have our own satellites yet.

I'm not up to date with Galileo, which is the European GPS system which was also going to be used by the military.

I've seen commentators say that StormShadow is 30 year old technology but that Ukraine will not get any new stuff, by which they mean the up to date stuff.

I think we were to have our own British Built and Launched sattelites but fuckwits that they are the conservatives chose the wrong (and about bankrupt) company that only built low earth orbit ones and for geostationary orbit needed moar powah rockets innit.

I can't remember the full details but IIRC New Scientist covered what an embarrassing fuckup it was.

Plus it requires less oomph to launch from closer to the equator as there's a bit more spinny speed* chucking it outward due to it having a slightly higher peripheral speed.





*thats the technical terminology, the layman usually calls it centrafugal force**

**It's not a real force sed Dazzler loudly

[Mr. Dazzle]

Re satellites, even private firms have satellites that can (and do) image the whole earth every 24 hours or so, it's nuts.

They can't zoom in like the really fancy US stuff*, but they're still pretty good and of course update very frequently.

*The Hubble Space Telescope is derived from spy sat tech, just pointing the other way. True story bro

[ZRX61]

Re satellites, even private firms have satellites that can (and do) image the whole earth every 24 hours or so, it's nuts.

They can't zoom in like the really fancy US stuff*, but they're still pretty good and of course update very frequently.

*The Hubble Space Telescope is derived from spy sat tech, just pointing the other way. True story bro

Years ago I found a satellite pic of my house that showed the garage door open & me working on something.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Just reading about Storm Shadow.

It has multiple guidance tools: Inertial navigation (I.e. dead reckoning), GPS and terrain matching IR imaging.

The first one is a free for all.
The Russians jam GPS in Ukraine.
The last one uses US controlled data (I.e. the maps which the system is trying to match to).

In all cases the missiles are preprogrammed on the ground. So you can use them without US permission but they're less accurate.

[Screwdriver]

This is a very serious and inflammatory move by the US. The UK had no option but to follow the US lead in allowing long range missiles to be used inside Russia.

StormShadow has been integrated into our Typhoon and Tornado fighters. I assume they will be launched from those platforms. I don't think we have "given" any of those aircraft (and ground crew) to Ukraine. They are not only hugely complex requiring a dedicated highly trained ground crew and pilot, they also contain proprietary data which neither the USA nor the UK would be handing over to anyone.

I'm not even sure if the UK has unrestricted access to those highly detailed terrain maps created by the US military.

The upshot is, the UK will be firing missiles at Russia. Our missile, from our aircraft, fired by our pilots. Most likely the air electronics operator or navigator who could be a trained Ukrainian. Heck I was almost an AEO/navigator myself but I held out for pilot (and missed).

Putin know this of course. Have you seen their new Oreshnik intermediate range ballistic missile in action? They were developed as tactical nuke delivery systems. Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles. MIRVs. He just let loose a small taste using dummy warheads. Kinetic devices, just a lump of metal.

A lump or multiple lumps of metal hitting the ground at Mach ten. Absolutely unstoppable. The nightmare of hypersonic missiles.



Mach ten! <shudder>

[KungFooBob]

This is a very serious and inflammatory move by the US. The UK had no option but to follow the US lead in allowing long range missiles to be used inside Russia.

StormShadow has been integrated into our Typhoon and Tornado fighters. I assume they will be launched from those platforms. I don't think we have "given" any of those aircraft (and ground crew) to Ukraine. They are not only hugely complex requiring a dedicated highly trained ground crew and pilot, they also contain proprietary data which neither the USA nor the UK would be handing over to anyone.

I'm not even sure if the UK has unrestricted access to those highly detailed terrain maps created by the US military.

The upshot is, the UK will be firing missiles at Russia. Our missile, from our aircraft, fired by our pilots. Most likely the air electronics operator or navigator who could be a trained Ukrainian. Heck I was almost an AEO/navigator myself but I held out for pilot (and missed).

Putin know this of course. Have you seen their new Oreshnik intermediate range ballistic missile in action? They were developed as tactical nuke delivery systems. Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles. MIRVs. He just let loose a small taste using dummy warheads. Kinetic devices, just a lump of metal.

A lump or multiple lumps of metal hitting the ground at Mach ten. Absolutely unstoppable. The nightmare of hypersonic missiles.



Mach ten! <shudder>

They won't be being fired from UK Tornados, they were retired from service in 2019.

[Screwdriver]

They won't be being fired from UK Tornados, they were retired from service in 2019.

I didn't know that but then I also don't know what aircraft we may or may not have donated to "the cause".

It's unlikely to be our latest systems and these Stormshadow missiles will probably have to be launched from an aircraft in this arena.

[Mr. Dazzle]

They won't be being fired from UK Tornados, they were retired from service in 2019.

I didn't know that but then I also don't know what aircraft we may or may not have donated to "the cause".

None. At least, none that can fire missiles, although plenty of aid has been flown.

Unless you think the government are lying. And TBF military aircraft are supposed to be sneaky

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... /cbp-9477/

The UK is providing both lethal and non-lethal weaponry, including tanks, air defence systems and long-range precision strike missiles. While the UK has committed to training Ukrainian fast jet pilots, it will not provide combat fighter aircraft

[Screwdriver]

None. At least, none that can fire missiles, although plenty of aid has been flown.

Well that was my assumption. It means if "Ukraine" launches Stomshadow at Russian territory, Putin will assume it was at the hand of UK/French military.

It takes this so called proxy war to another level. A direct attack from one nation onto another. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[KungFooBob]

I think it's the gifted F16's that are firing the UK donated Stormshadow missiles.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I suspect Putin will know exactly what/where those missiles were launched by/from. I also suspect that will have little bearing on what he says about it in public

FWIW I seem to remember hearing they're fired from Ukrainian Su24s.