How much developed nations owe developing countries for global warming?

[mangocrazy]

Brazil destroying the Amazon rainforets is hardly something that the Dutch, Danes and Poles are resposible for.

More likely the Brazilian farmers are destroying rainforests to raise cattle to cater for the USA's insatiable appetite for burgers.

Until China, India, Russia and the USA get involved we are fucked anyway

I'd say we're fucked anyway, whether or not China, India, Russia and the USA suddenly develop an environmental conscience (highly unlikely).

I'm in a particularly cheery mood today...

[Count Steer]

I'd say we're fucked anyway, whether or not China, India, Russia and the USA suddenly develop an environmental conscience (highly unlikely).

And when the last two humans are stood looking at the arid, poisoned ball in orbit one of them will still be 'explaining' to the other how the mess was nothing to do with humans at all.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Discourses-of-climate-delay.jpg (65.65 KiB) Viewed 366 times

[MyLittleStudPony]

The 12 discourses of climate delay.

Excuse 4: Whataboutism
Argument : ‘France only produces 1% of global carbon dioxide, the Chinese are the ones to blame! They should start making some efforts first, then we’ll see about it.”

Answer : This is the most common argument. We all know someone who constantly tries to find a reason not to change anything. Sadly, it’s the textbook answer of someone who doesn’t understand the difference between the national greenhouses gases inventory and the carbon footprint . Often, it’s someone who blames large emitters such as China, without understanding that the Chinese pollute by manufacturing consumer products… Which he will end up consuming. The High Council for the Climate has also highlighted this in its latest report on France’s carbon footprint .

The aviation sector is also an expert in redirecting responsibility: ‘ plane traffic only accounts for 3% of global emissions, which is peanuts compared to the impact of cars or maritime transport! But…. EVERYONE must question themselves. Given the reductions in CO2eq emissions that we must achieve every year, 1% is an enormous step forward. There will be no small profits. Any drop in emissions is worth it. Just because someone else pollutes more than you do doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do anything about it. If I had waited for every American to have a carbon footprint of 2T CO2eq/year before doing something, I would still be working in finance.

Not only is setting an example probably the best way to bring about change, but a tipping point can also stem from a minor change. Needless to say, from an ethical point of view, whether you are Chinese, Brazilian or French, everyone should switch their way of life to a sustainable one (this is valid for office workers, but also for Joaquin Phoenix and Madonna …). Finally, CO2 has no borders. What you emit can have very serious consequences elsewhere: this is what is called, among other things, climate injustice.

https://bonpote.com/en/12-climate-delay ... bunk-them/

[MrLongbeard]

I'd say we're fucked anyway, whether or not China, India, Russia and the USA suddenly develop an environmental conscience (highly unlikely).

And when the last two humans are stood looking at the arid, poisoned ball in orbit one of them will still be 'explaining' to the other how the mess was nothing to do with humans at all.

The earth will be fine, given time it will heal and be bountiful again, whatever comes after us will have to start the game again.

[mangocrazy]

It always makes me laugh when people talk about 'saving the planet'; as Mr LB says, the planet will survive and adapt. It's currently a case of saving our own sorry arses, and we're doing a pretty crap job of doing that.

[Count Steer]

It always makes me laugh when people talk about 'saving the planet'; as Mr LB says, the planet will survive and adapt. It's currently a case of saving our own sorry arses, and we're doing a pretty crap job of doing that.

It's still a bit like moving into a house and living there for 40 years without doing any maintenance, cleaning, washing up or putting the rubbish out - then blaming somebody else that you're living in a pigsty.

[mangocrazy]

It always makes me laugh when people talk about 'saving the planet'; as Mr LB says, the planet will survive and adapt. It's currently a case of saving our own sorry arses, and we're doing a pretty crap job of doing that.

It's still a bit like moving into a house and living there for 40 years without doing any maintenance, cleaning, washing up or putting the rubbish out - then blaming somebody else that you're living in a pigsty.

That wasn't my point at all; we absolutely should be looking after the planet; it's the only one we've got, after all. But it's whether or not homo sapiens can be smart enough to save our own species, and to do that we need to protect all the other species (flora, fauna and everthing else) in order to save our own skins. The planet will survive, one way or another; the current inhabitants, maybe not.

[Count Steer]

It always makes me laugh when people talk about 'saving the planet'; as Mr LB says, the planet will survive and adapt. It's currently a case of saving our own sorry arses, and we're doing a pretty crap job of doing that.

It's still a bit like moving into a house and living there for 40 years without doing any maintenance, cleaning, washing up or putting the rubbish out - then blaming somebody else that you're living in a pigsty.

That wasn't my point at all; we absolutely should be looking after the planet; it's the only one we've got, after all. But it's whether or not homo sapiens can be smart enough to save our own species, and to do that we need to protect all the other species (flora, fauna and everthing else) in order to save our own skins. The planet will survive, one way or another; the current inhabitants, maybe not.

I wasn't very clear...I was thinking of all those who see the impact of the changing climate, ocean pollution etc etc etc and either say it's all somebody or something else's fault - China, airlines, developing countries burning kerosene lamps, the natural cycle of things, entropy etc etc or shrug and say they'll be dead before things get really sticky.

So, the planet survives, cockroaches and tardigrades become the next big thing. Quite a legacy for homo sapiens eh?

[Cousin Jack]

Climate change happens. It has happened more than once in the past, when no homo sapiens was available to blame. It will likely happen again long after we are reduced to fossils.

We probably have more than a little to do with the current change, but it is doubtful if anything we do will actually change anything back. What is certain is that the current plans to 'save the planet' will cause major disruption for life as we know it, and not for the good.

A couple of weeks ago I was discussing this over lunch with friends, and the 'green electricity' shiboleth came up. On that particular day and time, solar was providing abut 3%, wind about 6%, with gas providing the lions share. The day before solar was also about 3%, wind was only about 1%. Green energy is very green indeed, but best get used to the lights going off when it is dull, cloudy and with no wind to speak of, and that is typical in winter with a well established high pressure over the UK.

If they do ALL go off the delay in getting the whole grid back up and synchnised after a full blackout will probably be measured in weeks!

[Saga Lout]

... Green energy is very green indeed, but best get used to the lights going off when it is dull, cloudy and with no wind to speak of, and that is typical in winter with a well established high pressure over the UK.

If they do ALL go off the delay in getting the whole grid back up and synchnised after a full blackout will probably be measured in weeks!

I suppose that's how Ed Milliband wil reduce our electricity bills by £300 a year. If there's no electricity, they can't bill us for it, can they?

Or can they?

[Mr Moofo]

I think that WW3 will be far more imminent - and the aftermath of that you can only hope that earth manages to adapt post what ever happens.
Regarding the man made destruction of the planet, nobody is going to step up and make the changes that it needs. Big business and it's politics runs the world now, not global politics.

If you look at Musk's domain, Apple , Microsoft, Meta and Amazon who in that group are going to rein in their spend on consumables, energy, transport and raw materials?

[mangocrazy]

And Google, whose data centres consume vast amounts of power and produce equally vast amounts of heat, reckon they've been carbon neutral for decades.

Yeah right.

[Dodgy69]

Maybe wiping out half the world's human population is the answer, not very humain though. Growth and expansion shits in the face of a cleaner planet and that's all I hear from our leaders. Enjoy while you can.

[Cousin Jack]

Maybe wiping out half the world's human population is the answer, not very humain though. Growth and expansion shits in the face of a cleaner planet and that's all I hear from our leaders. Enjoy while you can.

Half? Best wipe out 90% to give a bit of headroom for growth and expansion.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Population is predicted to peak later in this century, many countries (including the UK) are actually gonna struggle with a lack of young people over the next ~50 years. Birth-rate here is already well below the "replacement level".

[mangocrazy]

At some point (probably 50 years ago) we need(ed) to ditch the concept of perpetual growth on a finite planet.

[Dodgy69]

Population is predicted to peak later in this century, many countries (including the UK) are actually gonna struggle with a lack of young people over the next ~50 years. Birth-rate here is already well below the "replacement level".

School and nursery places should be sorted then.