Completely Motorbikes... Gone into Administration...

[mboy]

It's been obvious for the last 20 years or more that motorcycling in the UK is in decline. Most buyers are in the 50+ age group and every year more of them fall off their perches and are not being replaced by younger riders coming through. It may seem bad at the moment for bike shops but it's only going to get worse. The UK now is just a follower in bike design and marketing, we don't have the marketing and sales clout to lead trends, we just take what the rest of the world wants. Increasingly Asia will dictate trends, plus biking holdouts like Spain and Italy.

It's only "obvious" to somebody selectively choosing their information sources...

For sure, the motorcycle market has changed. It's different now to what it was when I was a lad in the 90's, it's quite different to what it was even 10yrs ago, and it's certainly a lot different to what it was when many of you grew up on 2 strokes and crossply tyres!

Motorcycling in the UK changes, it evolves. Those I know in the industry tell me things are almost as good as they've ever been, it's just that the demographic is changing... Small(er) bikes are becoming the norm again, people buy more accessories and clothing online now than in physical shops, people don't frequent the same hangouts that they used to so typically or even ride in similar social groups. But they do still ride.

That doesn't tally with my experience, or even this thread. A major chain has gone into administration, and there have been others recently. In my home town (Sheffield) SMC closed down earlier this year, and they were by far the biggest motorcycle dealer in the city. If you're selling into niche markets times may be good, but I really struggle to see how 'things are almost as good as they've ever been'. That sounds like whistling in the dark to keep your spirits up to me.

Your experience will be VERY selective at best, even if you are actively seeking out other motorcycling fraternity’s to hang around with… How old are you? Where do you live? What do you ride? What motorcycling haunts do you frequent?

Trust me when I say that CM Group’s failure has far more to do with financial mismanagement, growing too quickly based upon the premise of cheap finance, and a “devil may care” attitude towards picking up the tab (limited company, bankrolled by someone else) if it did all go sour… It was a vanity project, plain and simple. There’s some very well run motorcycle dealerships out there doing as well or better than they have ever done, they are just keeping their commitments tight and not overstretching themselves financially…

CM Group’s CEO has form here… Not his first boom and bust operation by all accounts.

[mboy]

I reckon it's just the big dealers eating the little dealers.

And then going pop. There's a lot to be said for keeping your operation lean, knowing your limits and not over-stretching yourself.

THIS…

This is far more on point than your previous post… Trust me!

[mangocrazy]

Your experience will be VERY selective at best, even if you are actively seeking out other motorcycling fraternity’s to hang around with… How old are you? Where do you live? What do you ride? What motorcycling haunts do you frequent?

Hmm. So I need to meet your approval in terms of age/location/choice of bike/motorcycling habits before you're prepared to accept my viewpoint as valid? I think it's probably time for you to out yourself in these respects so we can form an opinion on the veracity of your sources.

Trust me when I say that CM Group’s failure has far more to do with financial mismanagement, growing too quickly based upon the premise of cheap finance, and a “devil may care” attitude towards picking up the tab (limited company, bankrolled by someone else) if it did all go sour… It was a vanity project, plain and simple. There’s some very well run motorcycle dealerships out there doing as well or better than they have ever done, they are just keeping their commitments tight and not overstretching themselves financially…

CM Group’s CEO has form here… Not his first boom and bust operation by all accounts.

Bu the problem is that the large players dominate the market and generally set the tone. They also, because of their size, tend to hoover up the majority of customers. And it also seems that these are precisely the kind of outfits that tend to go bust and leave customers high and dry.

[Sadlonelygit]

Step son-in-law?!? is/was a brand ambassador!?!!! for CM
They supplied a liveried car foc and he got to drive it around.
On the bright side he only drove it when absolutely necessary, as he much preferred his disco to the grand Vitara he was given!

[mboy]

Your experience will be VERY selective at best, even if you are actively seeking out other motorcycling fraternity’s to hang around with… How old are you? Where do you live? What do you ride? What motorcycling haunts do you frequent?

You are COMPLETELY (pun not intended) missing the point...

I don't know how old you are, but you come across as quite a bit old(er) and very opinionated...

You know a LOT less than you think you do... You probably don't mix with all the varied different demographics of motorcycle rider (I don't myself, but I know people who do and who sell both bikes and P&A to them on a regular basis), and you definitely don't work in the trade... So your opinion is worth pretty much sweet FA to anyone except yourself here...

FACTS... We like facts...

I certainly don't have all the answers myself, I know my own motorcycling circle is pretty biased towards old blokes on large adventure bikes so is quite biased in that respect, but I know and understand this...

What I see, and what the industry sees, are two separate things...

[mangocrazy]

This is all getting a bit ming-mong ping-pong, but I'd say that you really need to take a look at what you've written and apply it to yourself. Everyone on this site (and on t'Internet) has an opinion and everyone thinks theirs is correct. Trying to denigrate the value of someone else's opinion is a classic way of attempting to achieve some kind of mythical superiority or high ground in a debate. And yes, I'm opinionated - I freely admit that. But I'd say that your posts have demonstrated that you are equally opinionated; it's just that your opinions clash with mine in certain respects.

And quoting part of one of your posts, labelling it as mine and then using it to try and prove I'm missing the point is unintentionally comic. Or sad, whichever.

[mboy]

I know my view point is skewed… Hence I am taking others’ into consideration… Those that work in the trade, sell the bikes and the gear… They are the ones telling me, along with the data, that the industry isn’t as bad as you and others think it is.

Based on my own experience, I’d say it was a load of 50+ old men riding Adventure Bikes and Cruisers, and nothing else… I am ignoring my own experience and valuing that of those who I know to be in influential roles here… Because their “opinions” are much closer to fact than ours!

Do you actually understand where I’m coming from now…?

[mangocrazy]

I understand your viewpoint and where you're coming from; I just don't entirely agree with it, that's all. I see large chains failing and smaller dealers getting gobbled up by the big boys. I also see small dealers that I've used for anywhere between 50 and 20 years closing down and selling up and their viewpoint doesn't tally with yours.

But I also know dealers at the high end (Ducati Coventry as an example) and they are doing very nicely, thank you. John Hackett is a personal friend of mine and he's done everything right - worked bloody hard, invested heavily in the business, hired top notch staff, kept close ties with the Bologna factory and basically run a tight ship. He's semi-retired now but his son has taken over the reins and is a chip off the old block. More power to their elbow.

While the volume of motorcycle registrations has basically flat-lined for the last 15 years, the expenditure on motorcycles in that period has fallen significantly, and those aren't inflation-adjusted figures either.

Quarterly MC expenditure.JPG (108.48 KiB) Viewed 583 times

https://www.statista.com/statistics/489 ... ingdom-uk/

To me this points to a slow but probably irreversible decline in the motorcycle industry long term and volume of sales shifting more and more to cheap commuter bikes. This does not give me any pleasure - far from it. Motorcycles have been a central part of my life for 60 years and I want to see future generations get the same enjoyment. My best guess is that the top end and the budget end will continue to stay reasonably healthy, but the mid-range (where most of us spend our dollar) will get increasingly hollowed out. That's just a guess, nothing more.

[Noggin]

I see a ridiculous number of bikes here compared to when I was in the UK. I'd guess that weather and types/conditions of roads comes into that. Given the apparent state of roads there and the number of cameras etc, I doubt it's as much fun as it used to be?

There are loads of youngsters on bikes around where I am, no idea how many progress to bigger bikes but they have the option of a 'sans permis' car at about the same age as the option for a bike, and many seem to go bike (probably cheaper TBF)

Weirdly, a stupid amount of the local bikes are great big Harley type cruisers With all the mountain roads/passes, twisty lakeside roads and very few other roads bar the Route Nationals/Auto Routes being remotely close to straight, I am always surprised at the number of what I'd think of as inappropriate bikes on the local roads!

[mangocrazy]

Yes, weather/climate plays a large part; I'm sure that's why so many MotoGP riders are Spanish/Italian/French. It's also in the DNA of the country - all the kids zip about on scooters and a lot then transition to bikes. I dunno what the Learner system is like in France, but in the UK it strikes me as hugely off-putting. Almost as if the Govt is quietly trying to persuade people off two wheels - surely not?

[Noggin]

Yes, weather/climate plays a large part; I'm sure that's why so many MotoGP riders are Spanish/Italian/French. It's also in the DNA of the country - all the kids zip about on scooters and a lot then transition to bikes. I dunno what the Learner system is like in France, but in the UK it strikes me as hugely off-putting. Almost as if the Govt is quietly trying to persuade people off two wheels - surely not?

They teach motorbike riding from cars here Have no idea how that works!! Not sure of the system but I do think it's similar to the UK in that you have various stages to do to build up to the next bracket of bike.

Doesn't seem to stop too many tho!

[MrLongbeard]

Given the apparent state of roads there and the number of cameras etc, I doubt it's as much fun as it used to be?

Can't say I've noticed any change, aside from the Welsh pissing about with 20 limits.

[Noggin]

Given the apparent state of roads there and the number of cameras etc, I doubt it's as much fun as it used to be?

Can't say I've noticed any change, aside from the Welsh pissing about with 20 limits.

Fair enough. It's 7 years since I've done anything remotely like hooning in the uk - well, since I've ridden in the uk!! And I've hardly driven there either (probably less than a handful of times) - but from reading on here (and a bit of FB) I would be put off from riding anywhere around where I used to!! Would love to be proven wrong as I really hope to come over next year as hoping I'll have a bike that suits me by then but also I've been offered the loan of one!!

I'll let you know if I think it's changed when I eventually get over!

[MrLongbeard]

but from reading on here (and a bit of FB)

Them's just the townies, get out into the countryside and it's the same as it ever was, a bit more traffic granted, but I like playing in traffic even on the massive Harley.

[Noggin]

but from reading on here (and a bit of FB)

Them's just the townies, get out into the countryside and it's the same as it ever was, a bit more traffic granted, but I like playing in traffic even on the massive Harley.

@ the townies bit!! LOL

TBF, I would imagine it's more fun playing with traffic on a massive Harley! I used to love it on the Blackbirds. Surprised a few folks on motos that thought they could lose me/pass me

[Supermofo]

Biggest problem with riding in the UK is the pot holes/state of the roads and amount of cars. I get around that second point by generally going out early. I also don't ride at silly speeds anymore, much over a ton and you could be looking at time, sod that. Naked bikes helps with this as does being a dad/older.

[Noggin]

Biggest problem with riding in the UK is the pot holes/state of the roads and amount of cars. I get around that second point by generally going out early. I also don't ride at silly speeds anymore, much over a ton and you could be looking at time, sod that. Naked bikes helps with this as does being a dad/older.

TBF, when I did used to hoon around over there, in general it was very early and a slightly less full on hoon for the return!!

[randomusername]

First post, long time lurker (mostly on STW to be honest).

There's plenty of life in the motorcycle trade still. Registrations are a little down but largely static, and brands have intentionally fewer dealers to (supposedly) compensate for the higher costs dealers are all facing.

It's not quite working that way though, because some bigger dealers who are more heavily geared (often but not always linked to car groups) are selling more out of area and the local dealer isn't really seeing any benefit. Completely were part of the problem, and were set up to sell locally and nationally - taking money out of the local dealer network. Now they've gone, the local dealer who suffered under their growth are now once again there to pick up the pieces.

This year has undoubtedly been tougher for pretty much everybody, but those who are cash rich are doing just fine and are not at any more risk now than they were previously. Those who have large stocking facilities however (see above) are struggling to generate enough profit to service it. You've got to sell a lot of bikes each month, at good decent margin, to pay the monthly interest on a £10-20m stocking facility...

[ZRX61]

I see a ridiculous number of bikes here compared to when I was in the UK. I'd guess that weather and types/conditions of roads comes into that. Given the apparent state of roads there and the number of cameras etc, I doubt it's as much fun as it used to be?

There are loads of youngsters on bikes around where I am, no idea how many progress to bigger bikes but they have the option of a 'sans permis' car at about the same age as the option for a bike, and many seem to go bike (probably cheaper TBF)

Weirdly, a stupid amount of the local bikes are great big Harley type cruisers With all the mountain roads/passes, twisty lakeside roads and very few other roads bar the Route Nationals/Auto Routes being remotely close to straight, I am always surprised at the number of what I'd think of as inappropriate bikes on the local roads!

We've lost the KTM, Ducati, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki & Can Am/Polaris dealers here in the past few years. So Cal is motorcycling heaven for roads & weather.

[Noggin]

I see a ridiculous number of bikes here compared to when I was in the UK. I'd guess that weather and types/conditions of roads comes into that. Given the apparent state of roads there and the number of cameras etc, I doubt it's as much fun as it used to be?

There are loads of youngsters on bikes around where I am, no idea how many progress to bigger bikes but they have the option of a 'sans permis' car at about the same age as the option for a bike, and many seem to go bike (probably cheaper TBF)

Weirdly, a stupid amount of the local bikes are great big Harley type cruisers With all the mountain roads/passes, twisty lakeside roads and very few other roads bar the Route Nationals/Auto Routes being remotely close to straight, I am always surprised at the number of what I'd think of as inappropriate bikes on the local roads!

We've lost the KTM, Ducati, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki & Can Am/Polaris dealers here in the past few years. So Cal is motorcycling heaven for roads & weather.

Yeahbut don’t Murcans only ride Harleys ??