Driving course info, whinges and questions!!!

[Sadlonelygit]

Next time 'yer maun' says drive faster in town
Just say 'sûr et fluide'
When I used to drive, the word most people used to describe my driving was smooth, which pleased me no end.
Even when I did service work, the great unwashed complimented me.
Remember, you have to demonstrate to an examiner that you are a safe and competent driver, not impress him with speed!

[Noggin]

Next time 'yer maun' says drive faster in town
Just say 'sûr et fluide'
When I used to drive, the word most people used to describe my driving was smooth, which pleased me no end.
Even when I did service work, the great unwashed complimented me.
Remember, you have to demonstrate to an examiner that you are a safe and competent driver, not impress him with speed!

That's the thing for me. I get a lot of compliments in the minibuses about how smooth I am. People that 'always' get car sick regularly tell me that they didn't feel sick even going up or down the mountain. I don't see the point in an 18t bus (well, in most vehicles) of hoofing it as fast as possible on a straight bit to hit a target speed only to have to brake harder to get around the next bit of road. For passenger vehicles my thinking is that it is about passenger comfort over hitting target speeds (I'm sure that once my car driving test was finished people would often say "remember, it's a limit not a target"!!

Anyway - mock test tomorrow. Kinda don't mind if I fluff that as long as I pass the actual test!!

[Horse]

Other fail I have is that I don't retain info on signs that I've seen, noted, dealt with and then forget - so when he asked me stuff, I couldn't tell him cos I didn't retain the info cos, well, done & dusted and onto the next thing!!

For this, and the criticism of anticipation, try using 'point and call'.

It will show the instructor how you are looking ahead and your understanding.

Then follow up by saying aloud what you intend to do, before doing it.

Also, ask whether the examiner will quiz you on signs passed?

[Noggin]

Other fail I have is that I don't retain info on signs that I've seen, noted, dealt with and then forget - so when he asked me stuff, I couldn't tell him cos I didn't retain the info cos, well, done & dusted and onto the next thing!!

For this, and the criticism of anticipation, try using 'point and call'.

It will show the instructor how you are looking ahead and your understanding.

Then follow up by saying aloud what you intend to do, before doing it.

Also, ask whether the examiner will quiz you on signs passed?

Honestly I don't think I can do that in French and get the driving right. Just have to hope I do the driving better.

I'm pretty sure that the examiner won't ask questions, but I'll just have to see I guess.

No more lessons with an instructor prior to the mock and then the exam

[Noggin]

Well, proper FUBAR'd the verbal bits of the mock test

Didn't find out until after that that the driving part was way better than I'd expected, given the feedback from all the instructors prior to the exam!!

On Thursday we had the driving test, 8 of us in the afternoon (9 in the morning). We'd all had to take a number and that determined the order of the test - I picked number one and did the test first, sadly for the mock verbal tests they reversed the order and I went last

We did the mock driving test then swapped to the manual bus for more instruction but with an instructor none of us had had before. Well fcking hell - first time I've actually been TAUGHT in the 15 hours driving 'instruction' I've done so far. Before it was completely based on actions and critisism, very little actual tuition.

The guy Thursday afternoon was bloody brilliant. Learnt SO MUCH more about the capability of speed through turns (not sharp ones, but sharp enough for me!) and also the use of the ralentisseur for slowing - I mean I used that before but not as much as he taught us too.

Freaking awesome instructor and he had us all laughing as well (and caused me to have to translate swear words/actions into English for him and the three boys! ).

The guys made me go first again and I do struggle a bit more with the manual bus; at one point he slapped my arm up by my shoulder - so I had to say, not that arm! If you have to slap me for an error, knee or thigh He also talked very fast and quite loud - again, conversation was had "I do not understand you at that speed when I am driving!! Can't understand fast French and drive at the same time!!". Both points he took on board and made jokes about in fun (not mean like the other day when an 'instructor' said my driving was always missing something, like English cooking always lacks something ).

Absolutely cannot believe how much we all learned. One of the other guys is very forthright and I know he's going to point out the differences to the main woman in charge. I may well put a similar comment on the feedback - not going to say much before the exams next week except to ask for another hour's driving with Juan on Tuesday before the driving test on Weds!! LOL


Then yesterday FFS. As No1 on Thursday I ended up 8 yesterday so had to wait 4 hours to do my 'Plateau'. I'd practiced the start and finish of the verbal stuff - could do it just fine. The Themes (they only give you the number then you have to remember the title and the process to follow) I thought I could do pretty well too. I knew the Fiches Orales were more challenging but most of them are just information around a subject to do with driving. I wasn't (am not) too keen on the one about drugs and alcohol and the one on Vehicle Dynamics (Speed, Centre of Gravity, Centrifugal force, adaptation of driving).

So, Started doing the First bit, got halfway through and couldn't think of anything else so said "finished, ready for the theme". Then realised I'd forgotten the whole of the outside checks FFS - can't go back when you say you've finished Got theme 5 - which is actually simple. But I was so angry/pissed off/stressed that I'd FUBAR'd the Socle 1 that I couldn't focus. Then went to the Fiche - only fucking got number 7. I could probably explain it all in English but I was always going to struggle in French. And after the FUBAR of the first two bits, well, FFS. The Socle 2 I thought went ok, ish!

The manoeuvre was totally fine - no issues with that!


So, we need 17 points to pass this Plateau section. I got 7, but actually I was eliminated because my fiche oral was so poor that I failed at that point

Am so so p'd off about it - especially as the driving was a pass and actually better than expected


Anyway - today and tomorrow is about practicing the Code de la Route mock exams on our system (I have 20 I can do before Monday).

I'm also going to try and work out a way to write out the Fiches Orales that will help me remember them better. (I'll photo and translate some to show what I'm trying to learn - in case anyone is interested!)


Next week is -

Monday - Code de la Route followed by revision

Tuesday - Revision

Weds - driving test

Thursday - revision

Friday - Plateau (the one I FUBAR'd yesterday )


So I have two full days and two half days that I can try and practice with some fellow students to try and get the system for the Socle 1 - Socle 2 fixed in my brain. And I'll ask to not go last!!

[Noggin]

This is the 'Plateau' we have to do on Friday -

French versions -









Socle 1 (I forgot all the outside stuff!)



Themes - there are 6 and we have to know them all as don't know which we'll get. We take a card and whichever number is on the card, we have to then 'do' the theme. Shouldn't be too difficult, in theory - unless you've just spazzed your brain





Socle 2 - again, relatively simple but you do have to say all the titles and do everything in the right order. I apparently didn't. I thought I did do everything but I guess there was stuff I didn't do as I got one point out of four

[Noggin]

Results sheets -

Plateau (the one I FUBAR'd ) -




Driving, still some progress I can make, but I passed and it was mostly positive, so I'm pretty ok with that!!

[Noggin]

Three of the twelve fiches orales!!

About number 8, someone on one of the truck courses asked me yesterday if the rules for alcohol and drugs are the same in the UK, cos that would make that particular fiche easier. I had to reply that I didn't know as I rarely drink and never if having to drive/ride within 24 hours, and I don't do or know anything about drugs!:lol: That caused a lot of laughter!!

[Horse]

Can you use some sort of visualisation?

eg If it's about vehicle checks, mentally 'walk up to' the vehicle, go around / over / through, etc.?

[Noggin]

Can you use some sort of visualisation?

eg If it's about vehicle checks, mentally 'walk up to' the vehicle, go around / over / through, etc.?

Thing is, I thought I had it. I'd done two 'run throughs' of the Socle 1 & 2 outside before I did the exam. Thought I had it fine. But I've always had issues with exams and the examiner was one of the ones who had seriously criticised my driving, so I was a bit wary!

I don't know. Well, I do know why my brain isn't working as well as it should - not new but haven't managed to get the (probable) solution yet. It's essentially brain fog. I know I can do stuff but I just go blank sometimes and it is a lot more difficult to read, intake and learn than normal (and as a dyspraxic, it's never particularly easy!)

Visualisation has never really worked for me. I just have to read, write and re read, re write and then practice. I think the practice bit was missing, so plan to head out to a bus on Tuesday and Thursday and just go over and over it with a fellow student and get it 'automatic'.

The fiche orales are a different animal. That's learning to repeat with no practical base (even the themes are in the bus, so relatively practical. Some are totally practical). He did ask me about speed - it was only today I realised I was supposed to have memorised the speed table to be able to spout that back Not a hope for me sadly. Just have to cross my fingers that I don't get number 7 in the exam proper!!

[Horse]

... the examiner was one of the ones who had seriously criticised my driving, so I was a bit wary!

Mentally tell him "Fuck you!" - careful, he may be able to lip read English

Something I've done when being given a blocking (either undeserved, or at the 'you've made your point' stage) is to imagine the person as a rattling skull and jaw. Problem is not smiling - doesn't go down well

Then take a couple of deep breaths, and read carefully.

Visualisation has never really worked for me.

No worries. Doesn't work well for everyone, some people not at all.

[Bigjawa]

What a load of bollocks. Half the fucking drivers that come to the UK just wave their licences and away they go, absolutely none of that will be of any use when you're actually in service, you won't be thinking about centres of gravity or centrifugal force. You'll be too busy getting the living cargo on and off and trying to make a timetable.

I'm starting to think that the reason you're getting so much hassle is because you aren't a cheese eating surrender monkey who smells of garlic.

[Noggin]

What a load of bollocks. Half the fucking drivers that come to the UK just wave their licences and away they go, absolutely none of that will be of any use when you're actually in service, you won't be thinking about centres of gravity or centrifugal force. You'll be too busy getting the living cargo on and off and trying to make a timetable.

I'm starting to think that the reason you're getting so much hassle is because you aren't a cheese eating surrender monkey who smells of garlic.

TBF, a lot of the on the course French are struggling. One of the guys I get on best with had a similar experience in the Plateau section - FUBAR'd slightly differently but still failed badly. He wasn't in my group for the tests, so I only saw him when I arrived Friday lunchtime, so was all positive to him and then went and did the same thing

Trouble is that this part of the test is based on how well you remember and regurgitate useless shit. One guy who got full marks struggles with the driving bit - not because he can't or is bad but on the practical he fluffs it when in an exam situation. His actual driving is totally fine and I'd happily be a passenger on a bus he was driving - can't say that about many of the others if I'm honest! (But I do get seriously travel sick!).

A mate down near Bourg did her professional qualifications over here (she's a homehelp/carer/medically person) but on her course the tutor was incredibly helpful to her to help her learn all the French stuff and the processes in French etc. The couple of us on this course that struggle with the language have had zero help at all. Also, there is an option to get extra time in some of the exams (like the highway code) if French isn't your first language, but the training school didn't tell anyone that this was possible and when we found out it was too late (you have to apply three months before the course!)


I don't think it's French in general, I do think it's not as good a training school as it's held up to be. Although French attitudes to teaching are very very different to UK - from school days onwards!

After next week (if I don't have retakes!) then we do something called FIMO for four weeks, which is similar to all the stuff above - all the learning stuff it might be handy to know (I think). The FCO that we do is essentially the Driver CPC and gets redone every 5 years. But the FIMO is bigger and takes about 4 weeks!!

I guess the school has to justify their 10k price for the course!! But so far I'm not remotely convinced!!

https://www.aftral.com/formation-profes ... UfEALw_wcB

[Noggin]

I posted elsewhere but didn't update on here.

Exam results -

Plateau - 20/21 (from an elimination and 7 points in the mock!!)

Driving - 22.5 (up a point from the mock - considering the examiner seemed to like failing people, I was quite chuffed!!)

Highway code - 32/40 & 33/40 FFS! So I have to retake the code on 25th November Bit late for the season, but at least I can retake it. And practice a lot in the mean time (I think a lot or most of the faults were lack of understanding the questions )


Two others failed the Code de la Route - both non French, but better French than I have. One has possibly done almost as much driving as I have despite being a bit younger!! I do think it's more difficult to pass if you have driven a very long time (my licence is older than most of the others on the course!) or drive for work all the time. Real driving is not as 'black & white' as the code requires!!


I think maybe five failed the Plateau - retake the 25th Nov

8 failed the driving. 2 failed the retake last week so have to do it again on or around the 25th Nov (one quit but apparently he's coming back on Weds or Thursday?!!)

[Noggin]

We've been doing some of the FIMO part of the course. So it's mostly drivers hours, driving economically, route planning (FFS, we have GPS now!!), some more manoeuvres, being able to put the disabled ramp out and back and finally being able to do a speech to the passengers!!

We did 7 hours of the manoeuvre today - basically reverse parking into a 'slot', both ways (Main and Contre Main? From the driver side direction and the other side direction?!). Cos of the guy that has maybe quit there were only three of us, so we got a lot more practice.

I'm quietly happy because the 'easy' version I did ok, probably need more practice! But the difficult one I got pretty damn good by the end, even when she narrowed the space to make the manoeuvre and also the width of the bay we actually reversed into!!

[Noggin]

We did Eco-Conduite today !!

How to drive an 18T bus economically - you'd have thought that was an oxymoron, but apparently no!

Plan was that we head out and each of us took a turn to drive, the instructor took the mileage and fuel consumption from the dashboard at the end of each of our 'goes', then we'd go back out and do the same routes but with him telling us when to accelerate/brake/use the ralentisseurs (retarders?).

More like telling us to accelerate and not use the brake!! LOL

Anyway, cos of the time of day and that we were starting in a fairly busy area of Chambery, we weren't able to go out and do the same routes as rush hour traffic jammed up everywhere

But, we did different routes (so no comparisons) and it was, interesting!

Basically he shouted to us to accelerate up to the limit and then coast as much as possible! Ok, within reason and if it was clear etc etc. Still often faster than we'd want to go in the situation, but it wasn't unsafe, we're just still novices!! Accelerating to almost the brow of a hill to then allow the speed to carry the bus over the brow and then coast down using hte ralentisseurs to slow where necessary was something I did last week and have a little confidence in that. What I had to learn fast tonight was to leave a huge gap in traffic if it was moving slowly as the bus is an auto so will just keep moving and if the traffic is stop start, then we'll catch up at some point!

Also - letting the bus slow for roundabouts in a totally different way. I'm certain sure one of the instructors had told us to use the ralentisseur over the brakes in a lot of situations but this one was happy to have a foot over the brake pedal for roundabouts and then take a gap more easily (definitely couldn't teach us this before as we were all too busy learning how long the bus was and how much room we needed on roundabouts!)

It's interesting just how much the engine braking on an auto does work. Sadly we never drive often enough (and not always the same bus) to actually learn to do it really well as each vehicle is a bit different - but at least we have some info and can hopefully learn more once we drive the bigguns for work!!


Only annoying thing is being shouted out to 'lift off the throttle' with increasing volume when my foot isn't even touching the bastarding pedal!! Same with the brake. I ended up saying - I'm not touching the pedal!! Not sure if it's cos I've got stupidly small feet that he can't tell or what, but he doesn't seem to shout like that at anyone else

[Bigjawa]

On my truck, when you touch the brake pedal, it'll use the exhaust brake before it applies the wheel brakes, it'll change down if it has to.

Leaving big gaps is daft cos some fucker WILL cut in front of you and you'll have to anchor up like fuck.

Our deckers used to do about 6 mpg. Best I ever got was 10mpg driving an empty one from Dublin to Belfast. It was a Volvo B5 so only had the wee 4 cylinder engine.

[Noggin]

On my truck, when you touch the brake pedal, it'll use the exhaust brake before it applies the wheel brakes, it'll change down if it has to.

Leaving big gaps is daft cos some fucker WILL cut in front of you and you'll have to anchor up like fuck.

Our deckers used to do about 6 mpg. Best I ever got was 10mpg driving an empty one from Dublin to Belfast. It was a Volvo B5 so only had the wee 4 cylinder engine.

I suspect the coaches I’ll be driving will be better set up than the school ones - bloody hope so!! Especially for seat adjustment.
(Just did 1.5 hours driving on ridiculously small twisty turny roads on a seat that was slanting down towards the pedals! I’d tried to make it flat instead of tilted up and couldn’t so the instructor “helped”. After that moment of having the instructor’s arm between my legs fiddling with the switch that moves the base of the chair, I wasn’t going to ask for any more help )

And I do think that this course, despite its ridiculous length and price, is just like any other driving course - they just teach you to pass the various tests, then you head out and hope you learn a shit ton more very fast!!

TBF my learning curve will be almost vertical as I’ll be heading from the course to driving coaches and 19 passenger LWB high top Sprinters on snow . In and out of various ski resorts and to various airports! If I survive the winter without any damage it’ll be a freaking miracle!!!! (I mean damage to a vehicle we already know I rarely survive!!)

[Bigjawa]

First bus I ever drove was an ancient Leyland Tiger which you can drive on a car license as it's over 30 years old, saying that I had driven trucks for years so it was pretty easy. When I did my training, I started on March 26 and passed my tests on April 19.

[Noggin]

First bus I ever drove was an ancient Leyland Tiger which you can drive on a car license as it's over 30 years old, saying that I had driven trucks for years so it was pretty easy. When I did my training, I started on March 26 and passed my tests on April 19.

I've since found out that you can just take the bus test, but without all the extras, jobs will be limited (and lower paid)! And basically I'm not paying so I just have to pass!!!

I will get a good job out of it but it is a LOT of stress and stuff. Probably worth it, have to see!! LOL