Petition to exclude bike training/tests from Covid restrictions

[Hot_Air]

In case anyone wishes to support it, a petition has begun about removing bike training and testing from Covid restrictions:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/558548

[weeksy]

I get it, it makes sense... but on the flip side, is there any real reason for someone to get training/tested on bikes currently ?

[KungFooBob]

Key workers who don't want to go on the bus. Safer (from a covid PoV) to use a moped?

[weeksy]

Key workers who don't want to go on the bus. Safer (from a covid PoV) to use a moped?

Mmmm maybe... But i can't honestly see there being that many who've gone from car/bus to deciding to get a motorbike/scooter.... a few, maybe... but loads ?

[KungFooBob]

I reckon it's more about people who don't hold a current car license, not wanting to use public transport.

You can buy a brand new chinese moped for £800... but can't ride it if you don't get a CBT.

[Horse]

I get it, it makes sense... but on the flip side, is there any real reason for someone to get training/tested on bikes currently ?

Given the 'outdoors' and 'distancing' elements of training normally, it would seem a daft thing to prohibit.

Ok, passing bits of paper, getting signatures, etc might be awkward, but not impossible.

[The Spin Doctor]

I get it, it makes sense... but on the flip side, is there any real reason for someone to get training/tested on bikes currently ?

Yes. CBTs are expiring, with no way to renew them. And of course, there's been a very significant boost in small cc bike sales since March which is due to people commuting to work on two-wheelers - that will only continue as people avoid public transport.

The real issue is the log jam on tests. I've heard that the earliest that people who've had tests cancelled this month can get a new date is February.

[The Spin Doctor]

I get it, it makes sense... but on the flip side, is there any real reason for someone to get training/tested on bikes currently ?

Given the 'outdoors' and 'distancing' elements of training normally, it would seem a daft thing to prohibit.

Ok, passing bits of paper, getting signatures, etc might be awkward, but not impossible.

Going digital.

[The Spin Doctor]

I've been covering this on the Elevenses webcast for the last few weeks, and the issue is this - DVSA told all trainers (cars and bikes) they MUST shut down. It turns out there is no basis on the COVID regulations for this decision.

The question really hinges on whether you can continue to work when you can't work from home, and whether people can travel for education.

One training school got the lawyers in and the DVSA 'must' statement was quickly and subtly altered to say "lessons should not take place" and that trainers were "advised against critical worker lessons". The school was told although training "should not" take place, his school would "need to decide whether to follow the guidance". They confirmed that “we will not close your business or remove instructor certificates should you continue training.”

The DIA have been on the case, asking for clarification. When they posed the question "Will I be breaking the law if I carry on training my pupils? What enforcement will there be?" the DVSA dodged the question. Their answer states:

"Enforcement of Covid rules is a police matter. The position remains, if an ADI or a motorcycle instructor is convicted of an offence the ADI or CBT Registrar will take all the circumstances into consideration when deciding whether or not they are a fit and proper person to remain on the register of instructors."

It's a masterpiece. It completely fails to answer the legality question, shuffling responsibility off onto the police to decide if a breach has taken place, whilst continuing to wave the threatening big stick.

One school contacted their local police as well as the local authority COVID team. The police said it wasn't a police mater. The COVID team responded with a well-reasoned piece that went through all the legislation step-by-step and concluded that outdoor 1:1 CBTs were legal.

[Horse]

Worth quoting .gov

To help contain the virus, everyone who can work effectively from home should do so. Where people cannot do so - - they should continue to travel to their workplace. This is essential to keeping the country operating and supporting sectors and employers.

[Cousin Jack]

I get it, it makes sense... but on the flip side, is there any real reason for someone to get training/tested on bikes currently ?

Yes. CBTs are expiring, with no way to renew them. And of course, there's been a very significant boost in small cc bike sales since March which is due to people commuting to work on two-wheelers - that will only continue as people avoid public transport.

The real issue is the log jam on tests. I've heard that the earliest that people who've had tests cancelled this month can get a new date is February.

Bike sales seem to be doing well - local dealer told me that he has no problem selling new bikes, only in sourcing the damn things. The Honda I bought was on the shop floor, if I wanted a different colour it was estimated as 'after Xmas'.

[The Spin Doctor]

Bike sales seem to be doing well - local dealer told me that he has no problem selling new bikes, only in sourcing the damn things. The Honda I bought was on the shop floor, if I wanted a different colour it was estimated as 'after Xmas'.

They don't do 'in stock' any more. I think Yamaha had a lot to do with that when they get shafted with masses of unsold stock in the early 80s. Remember the XZ550? That and the money spinner of having 'factory options' like centre stands.

[Bigyin]

Key workers who don't want to go on the bus. Safer (from a covid PoV) to use a moped?

Mmmm maybe... But i can't honestly see there being that many who've gone from car/bus to deciding to get a motorbike/scooter.... a few, maybe... but loads ?

You would be amazed at the amount of people with zero interest in bikes I have put through CBT just to have transport to and from work in the last few months.

All those with existing CBT tickets that expire in November will either use the bus or ride illegally as DVSA stated ALL training stopped during lockdown. During the first one we were permitted to train key workers and carry out renewals to keep people legal but stupidly this time banned..... pointless sweeping measures

[The Spin Doctor]

stupidly this time banned..... pointless sweeping measures

And not on any legal basis either.

[dayglo jim]

The only issue I can see is making sure office/training areas (cones rather than tarmac) and all shared equipment (bikes, radios, earpieces, clothing etc) but I'd imagine schools would rather spend out and do this than lose trade.

[Bigyin]

The only issue I can see is making sure office/training areas (cones rather than tarmac) and all shared equipment (bikes, radios, earpieces, clothing etc) but I'd imagine schools would rather spend out and do this than lose trade.

We have done.

Temperature checks on arrival. All initial admin done outside with card machines if needed wiped down after each use. We even built a new toilet facility so we dont have to share with other firms on the estate. Big bottles of hand sanitiser everywhere for students to use.

Once you start on a bike its yours for the day then wiped down on all contact surfaces, radios are in plastic bags, earpieces are wiped down every use. Clothing is no longer loaned out and every student has to bring their own helmet, jacket and gloves as we cant loan out kit

Our classroom is either outdoors in decent weather or distanced with masks indoors. Once on the pad all trainees wear helmets so full face coverings. Instructors wear face masks while talking to them and gloves if we have to touch any controls on the bike for demo purposes. Once on the road for DAS its all distanced anyway and the above applies for kit

All the same can apply for bike tests

The entire shutdown for bikes is based on DVSA applying the rules for cars to bikes in a blanket manner without even looking at the differences that apply. Complete farce

[The Spin Doctor]

Likewise... my trainees are on their own bikes, and the only loan item is the radio, so I'm giving away in-ear headphones or selling inexpensive two-way mic/earphone headsets. The sanitised radio goes in a sanitised bag which goes round the waist. The only time they touch it is to plug the headset in to an extension lead.

Aside from short roadside stops delivered helmet on with me wearing a face covering, all my theory teaching is delivered remotely in a pre-ride Zoom chat, and likewise the debrief, which we use to watch video footage of the ride. I couldn't do much more to abide by the 'work from home wherever possible' directive.

Strictly speaking, as an independent trainer I'm not bound by the DVSA's rules, but have adhered anyway.

The DIA have a briefing tomorrow with the DVSA to say how we can get back to work.

[Bigyin]

Strictly speaking, as an independent trainer I'm not bound by the DVSA's rules, but have adhered anyway.

The DIA have a briefing tomorrow with the DVSA to say how we can get back to work.

I would have thought your circumstances and type of training would present far less issues to deal with than initial CBT and DAS.

The fact you arent DVSA ruled as well should put you free and clear to continue IMO. We are stuck as we have to sign and date all training and tests on paperwork issued and collated by DVSA.

[The Spin Doctor]

I would have thought your circumstances and type of training would present far less issues to deal with than initial CBT and DAS.

The fact you arent DVSA ruled as well should put you free and clear to continue IMO. We are stuck as we have to sign and date all training and tests on paperwork issued and collated by DVSA.

I decided it wasn't worth putting my head above the parapet. There were trainers on a FB group threatening to take photos and send them to the police if they spotted anyone out training. I'm sure the police had better things to do, but I really didn't want the potential for hassle however remote.

But I think we'll be out next week... I just need to get some bookings in now. Who's up for a post-test course in the London area?