Textile jackets

[Count Steer]

Got an email today which basically said "F.Y.", but wrapped up in nice flowery language.

I'll have another go, and will take the next step to see if i can get a refund, I'm pissed off about it tbh.

Because of all this fecking around with BMW refusing repeatedly to do a refund instead of replacing the, I'm going to be left with a jacket that isn't half as useful (even taking into account the compromised pockets) as the jacket i bought in the first place.
The Pace Guard jacket is crap compared to the Streetguard .

Did the Pace Guard replace the Tour Guard? We both had TGs and they were excellent, never a hint of a leak. (I loaned mine to someone for a special trip...never saw it again. I bought a Rukka and that was even better in some ways...mainly the fit, as they're similar design construction).

[Rockburner]

Got an email today which basically said "F.Y.", but wrapped up in nice flowery language.

I'll have another go, and will take the next step to see if i can get a refund, I'm pissed off about it tbh.

Because of all this fecking around with BMW refusing repeatedly to do a refund instead of replacing the, I'm going to be left with a jacket that isn't half as useful (even taking into account the compromised pockets) as the jacket i bought in the first place.
The Pace Guard jacket is crap compared to the Streetguard .

Did the Pace Guard replace the Tour Guard? We both had TGs and they were excellent, never a hint of a leak. (I loaned mine to someone for a special trip...never saw it again. I bought a Rukka and that was even better in some ways...mainly the fit, as they're similar design construction).

Yes the Pace Guard replaced the StreetGuard and TourGuard, but the PaceGuard came in Tour and Adventure styles . (The Adventure style was just longer iirc)

The issue with the pockets is that when they leak the water getting into the pocket is inside the trilaminate and soaks through into the inner liner.

[Horse]

I'll be having a look at the Halvarssons stuff. I do specifically like the tri-laminate material as an outer for reasons I've expounded in the past.

I also like that they put hi-art which is like Terry towelling made out of dyneema inside the impact areas. It's very abrasion resistant whereas most textiles simply rely on the armour for that, and armour slides around.

From the Moto legends review:

But the new Nivala 2 has been tested under the new CE regime, and surprisingly it only meets the new standard at the single A level. Now nobody would expect a touring and commuting suit to meet the highest AAA level; such a suit would never be comfortable to ride in. But one would normally expect an outfit like this to be rated at AA.

And so we spoke directly with Rukka in Finland about the Nivala 2’s CE rating. The company is not at all concerned

Odd that some manufacturers can make an AAA (or even AA) touring suit.

It also says there are no adjusters to keep armour in place.

[Ian]

You quoted me but Nivala is Rukka. I was gushing over Halvarssons (hi art is the stuff the old safety suits used to be made out of so I hope it's better than an A).

[Horse]

Sorry. Misread it.

[Ian]

No problem, its interesting to read tat such an expensive jacket performs so badly

[Count Steer]

Speaking of waterproof kit, does anyone remember Motomod? I had one of their jackets back in the 80s and it was superb. I think they were a French company. All I can find now are old ones on eBay etc.

[Rockburner]

Speaking of waterproof kit, does anyone remember Motomod? I had one of their jackets back in the 80s and it was superb. I think they were a French company. All I can find now are old ones on eBay etc.

Name rings a bell.... But not sure why.

[Whysub]

I had all my kit purchased for me by my employers. Initially had Rukka, but over the years I found every subsequent model became less and less waterproof.

Last textiles I chose for them to buy me in 2018 was a Hideout suit. 100% waterproof still. I've spent many hours and thousands of miles riding in rain.

Only wear it now if I am riding up to Northern Europe, as it is makes me too hot to ride in comfort here, and it doesn't rain that much either.

[Nordboy]

I have the Rukka Nivala suit and it has been worn for many months and '000's of miles. In some of the worst weather that I've ridden in. I do often feel like I'm getting wet, probably temperature. But get back and my undercrackers are always bone dry.

I like it, even better that my job paid for it. I'd struggle to pay out that sort of money for a suit, regardless of how good it is.

[Yorick]

My vest and flip flops hold up against the rain here very well

[Horse]

Speaking of waterproof kit, does anyone remember Motomod? I had one of their jackets back in the 80s and it was superb. I think they were a French company.

Yes, IIRC, French. And excellent reputation. One quirky feature on a suit another instructor had was a built-in balaclava - no rain trickling down your neck!

Another name from the past: Flexothane - like stretchy PVC.

Still going:
https://www.graniteworkwear.com/b_18_sh ... PM8SBspRn-

[Rockburner]

Speaking of waterproof kit, does anyone remember Motomod? I had one of their jackets back in the 80s and it was superb. I think they were a French company.

Yes, IIRC, French. And excellent reputation. One quirky feature on a suit another instructor had was a built-in balaclava - no rain trickling down your neck!

Another name from the past: Flexothane - like stretchy PVC.

Still going:
https://www.graniteworkwear.com/b_18_sh ... PM8SBspRn-

Seen a few jackets with that recently. The new BMW Moreno jacket has it.

[Bigyin]

Got soaked last week and its fair to say my Dainese Carve Mater 2 suit has finally given in after 5 years allyear round use commuting and instructing. Jacket seems ok amid all the broken zip pulls with keyring loops in them now but the trousers leaked after a 30 minute ride in torrential rain

The Rukka suit i had before that lasted 8 years before it leaked during the Norway tour and continued after a wash and nikwax attempt. I might was the Dainese and try and retreat it but its a different design as i understand it and i think the internal membrane has given up

[Rockburner]

Got soaked last week and its fair to say my Dainese Carve Mater 2 suit has finally given in after 5 years allyear round use commuting and instructing. Jacket seems ok amid all the broken zip pulls with keyring loops in them now but the trousers leaked after a 30 minute ride in torrential rain

The Rukka suit i had before that lasted 8 years before it leaked during the Norway tour and continued after a wash and nikwax attempt. I might was the Dainese and try and retreat it but its a different design as i understand it and i think the internal membrane has given up

Let us know what you end up getting.
I'm not commuting much anymore but still pondering a proper touring jacket/suit.

Not sure if my 15 year old HG Voyager trousers have any life left in them!

[Scootabout]

Theres a zip missing FFS! How do they defend that?
Is it worth talking to citizens advice they can at least tell you the legislation to quote.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consu ... lty-goods/

[Rockburner]

Just an update (if anyone still cares....) on the leaky pocket saga.

I think I'm on a hiding to nothing with trying to chase the refund, I've left it too long, it's over 5 years since the original purchase. I'm still waiting for a response from the CC company, but not expecting anything from them really. I've done everything I conceivably can, short of going through a Small Claims process. I'm still in two-minds about that.

I popped into Vines yesterday evening and had a long chat with the dept head about it all, and they're offering me 50% off any new jacket as a goodwill gesture from Vines themselves (ie: not BMW). That will be a "new-purchase', so is entitled to the usual 2-year manufacturer warranty etc. No time limit on that offer either.

I also happened to overhear that the BMW clothing range isn't changing for next year, so there's no benefit in potentially holding out for the next variant.

50% is a hefty chunk of discount, but am I going to actually get a decent waterproof jacket? BMW are still marketing their GoreTex (who they're back with again) jackets as "waterproof" in the spiel, and with little blue tags next to each pocket! (which indicates that the sales-staff I talked to a couple of weeks ago don't read their own blurb...). The new tri-laminate material seems a lot thinner and insubstantial than the previous generation, and the textile jackets look even more like a cordura bin-bag than ever. I didn't try any on yet.

Not sure if I should cut my losses at this point, or have another go. I even opined to the dept-head that if I was going to buy a new jacket I'd be doing it when the likelihood of it pissing down within the first 2 weeks of ownership was far more likely, so as to vastly improve my chances of a replacement if it failed, also I'd struggle to justify the outlay right now, and that's when he reassured me the offer lifetime was essentially permanent. (but also reminded me that nothing ever goes down in price. )

[Skub]

It's akin to chasing the impossible dream,expecting to buy waterproof gear that's actually waterproof. If you're happy with the jacket apart from the leaky pocket,the 50% is worth considering. You're still paying half the price again for a product which may have a 50% chance of being waterproof. The alternative is going in cold and being the test monkey for other brands.

It's a gamble either way and I'm not sure what I'd do.

[Horse]

Just an update (if anyone still cares....) on the leaky pocket saga.

I'm interested

Small Claims process. I'm still in two-minds about that.

TBH, my thoughts on that changed once you'd listed the timeline.

they're offering me 50% off any new jacket as a goodwill gesture from Vines themselves (ie: not BMW). That will be a "new-purchase', so is entitled to the usual 2-year manufacturer warranty etc. No time limit on that offer either.

50% is a hefty chunk of discount, but am I going to actually get a decent waterproof jacket?

Not sure if I should cut my losses at this point, or have another go.

Q to him would be: what does that 'waterproof' mean, realistically? Leave him in no doubt that you'll be back if it leaks - and never mind 'warranty' period, this would be 'sale of goods' period, such as up to five years. If he quibbles, then ask whether he doesn't expect it to last that long?

You have other options, from buy cheap to expensive.

Really, how does the BMW jacket compare to others, price / fit / protection, etc., at the offer price?

[Rockburner]

Just an update (if anyone still cares....) on the leaky pocket saga.

I'm interested

Small Claims process. I'm still in two-minds about that.

TBH, my thoughts on that changed once you'd listed the timeline.

they're offering me 50% off any new jacket as a goodwill gesture from Vines themselves (ie: not BMW). That will be a "new-purchase', so is entitled to the usual 2-year manufacturer warranty etc. No time limit on that offer either.

50% is a hefty chunk of discount, but am I going to actually get a decent waterproof jacket?

Not sure if I should cut my losses at this point, or have another go.

Q to him would be: what does that 'waterproof' mean, realistically? Leave him in no doubt that you'll be back if it leaks - and never mind 'warranty' period, this would be 'sale of goods' period, such as up to five years. If he quibbles, then ask whether he doesn't expect it to last that long?

You have other options, from buy cheap to expensive.

Really, how does the BMW jacket compare to others, price / fit / protection, etc., at the offer price?

I haven't really been looking at other jackets (or the BMW ones) recently so I don't know (I don't spend every weekend in a different bike shop... ).

They're very aware that any shortcomings in a jacket I buy will be rapidly questioned. But it's a good point.