When is a day off not a day off

[Jody]

I have an HR coming to meet with me on Friday. She's coming to talk to me about the contract.

Somewhat concerned that I'll lose my cool OR allow myself to be tricked into accepting something I'm not happy with.

I've decided to write out everything I want to say about both issues.
When she arrives, I'll make tea and literally hand her a document to read.

Plus I'll tell her that "some people on t'internet think I'm right so nerr nerr nerrrrrr"

[Noggin]

Have you heard back from the employment legal peeps? They are usually pretty hot on this sort of thing.

I'll write some stuff that's probably obvious -

don't lose your cool!! (It's not actually the HR person that's been a dick, and she might well be more understanding than you think!)

try and stick to what is on your list, try not to get sidetracked by other topics by her. If she wants to discuss other stuff, say you need time to prepare for the meeting. Maybe request from her an agenda of sorts so you know what she wants to discuss from her side?

consider mentioning (if you haven't already) that you've been in touch with the employment legal peeps - that will make the HR/company want to be completely on the level legally (fines are huge for bad practice - did you know Silver Ski before the Covid shut down? Bent loads of rules, bullied staff into signing changed contracts retrospectively when they had the inspection, massive fines in each resort)

Work out what you want beforehand. Do you want to stay at the job? Do you need to? Are you willing to negotiate to stay? etc etc


I'm sure I'm teaching you to suck eggs or whatever, but calm is the most important.

[Horse]

Writing it down is a great idea.

Also, try and think of as many examples as you can of when you have done extra (eg the AC issue). Plus, the number of days off scheduled that have already been affected.

Finally, the most difficult bit:

What do you want?

Is it
- Not being disturbed at all on days off?
- Having company support on those days (eg the AC) for customers?
- Overtime payments when you work extra hours (but be wary of them committing yourself up to 24/7 on-call)?

Only you can answer that.

[weeksy]

I guess the issue here is when your contact/term expires in a few months. What's the odds of them just simply saying "fuck you" to next year ? "he's the bloke who makes it complicated and won't go a little further to help"

[Ditchfinder]

HR work for the employer not the employee

[DefTrap]

HR work for the employer not the employee

This is true but they are also making sure that their employees don't break employment law. And employment law is very strict in France.

[Taipan]

I guess the issue here is when your contact/term expires in a few months. What's the odds of them just simply saying "fuck you" to next year ? "he's the bloke who makes it complicated and won't go a little further to help"

Yup. I'd be wary of biting the hand that feeds you, unless you have lots of other options?

[Sadlonelygit]

The boat has already well and truly rocked by the sound of things. I seriously doubt Jody will be going back next year or even considered by the company, unless HR are building a case against the manager ( unlikely in France).
If you only have a short term left on your contract, then I'd be tempted to go for a fiscal advantage, unless your days off are more important.
If they use a fosse septique, pour some javel into it, and flush a load of disposable nappies on your last day!

[DefTrap]

I guess it depends on the organization and the HR.
-My- experience of the above, in France, is that HR are bound to explain your contract & rights in great detail - way better than previous experiences of UK & US contracts, which were slapdash. But this is just my limited view natch'.

[Jody]

Hi All, I had a meeting hr lady today.

She agreed that having Wednesday as a full day off isn't on if I have to submit the linen count.
I explained that I had found a way for the bookings list to automatically get forwarded on a Thursday.

I sent her away with 3 things.

1. I want my guests to be able to contact someone irrespective of what day of the week it is. I am not OK with abandoning them.
2. I want that person not to be me if it's my day off.
3. I suggested that the works phone is diverted to my boss when I'm off.

She seemed OK with all that but did need to discuss it with others before confirming.

We also discussed the contract. Initially she said,
"we can't change the contract, we use a formula on each campsite to work out the hours and 30 p week is what is right for this site"

To which I said

You can change the contract, you just don't want to. You are not going to tell me that No-one in the entire company has the ability to override the formula.

"I'll ask again, but I'm not hopeful" She said

"Ok, you do that please, I'm still waiting on hearing back from the legal team. I was offered this job with specific terms and only when I got here did I find out that I had been given bad information. I wouldn't of come here under the true terms."

She asked what would happen if she didn't get the answer I want. I explained I would go above her, and I would keep going until either the company do the right thing, or they spend twice the cost of fixing it refusing to do it. (Under the terms I've offered the cost to the company is approx €60 per week over 4 months). I also explained that I would keep going, not just for my benefit but for the benefit of all future employees.

She also said how they knew I was a good employee and they want to keep hold of me and they want me back next year.
I explained that if the company keep refusing to do the honourable thing, I can't guarantee that I would stay to the end of my contract.

At the moment, I'm not really feeling coming back to the same company next year. Unfortunately they are by far and away the largest group in this sector and they do seem to keep buying up the smaller ones.......

I don't know, maybe it's time for me to try something else in the summers ?!

[Horse]

Ta for the update.

Have you set, or did she state, a date to get back with a definite answer?

If not, take the initiative and set one, email her. Otherwise there's the possibility of it dragging on.

[Yorick]

Form a paper trail. Email her with the details of the meeting.

If she replies, then she accepts your version of events.
Stops her changing her mind.

[Jody]

Ta for the update.

Have you set, or did she state, a date to get back with a definite answer?

If not, take the initiative and set one, email her. Otherwise there's the possibility of it dragging on.

I didn't! But you're right I should have. If I've not heard within a week, I'll chase her up.

Form a paper trail. Email her with the details of the meeting.

If she replies, then she accepts your version of events.
Stops her changing her mind.

Great idea thanks. I've emailed her.

[Jody]

Well, Well, Well

Due to an anomaly on the time sheet I decided to check. You see every 2-3 weeks, I have to email my boss with what hours I've worked, he then enters it into the time sheet to record my actual hours for pay and for the French Gov't.

Upon checking this morning, I can see that he hasn't accurately transferred the information.

The net result is that I have worked over 13 hours that haven't been recorded !!!

Just as I was wondering how best to handle this, I get a WhatsApp from my boss telling me that he is leaving the company and his last day is 6th of August.

[mangocrazy]

I'd be onto him PDQ to get your hours corrected before he does a runner. At least with a new boss you can get the ground rules established from his first day in the job. Hopefully...

[Horse]

Sounds like he's jumping before being pushed. (Better for the CV etc)

I'd be onto him PDQ to get your hours corrected before he does a runner. At least with a new boss you can get the ground rules established from his first day in the job. Hopefully...

Should you be paid overtime?

I'd go straight to your new friend in HR, ask her to update the records. Perhaps ask whether your role needs to be redefined (if you want that), or which bits they don't want want you to do, to keep within contracted hours?

Also gives you justification for asking "and by the way, will you have an answer, soon, from our discussion?"

[Jody]

I'd be onto him PDQ to get your hours corrected before he does a runner. At least with a new boss you can get the ground rules established from his first day in the job. Hopefully...

I wondered about waiting until after he's gone. They can't really argue then as they can't tell me his justification.

Sounds like he's jumping before being pushed. (Better for the CV etc)

I'd be onto him PDQ to get your hours corrected before he does a runner. At least with a new boss you can get the ground rules established from his first day in the job. Hopefully...

Should you be paid overtime?

I'd go straight to your new friend in HR, ask her to update the records. Perhaps ask whether your role needs to be redefined (if you want that), or which bits they don't want want you to do, to keep within contracted hours?

Also gives you justification for asking "and by the way, will you have an answer, soon, from our discussion?"

Overtime. Some weeks we work more, some weeks we work less, It's supposed to average out and if it doesn't we get the overtime at the end of the season. But if it's not recorded, we get F all !!

HR lady came back to me 2 days ago. (I didn't post here as I wasn't sure what I was going to do). HR lady said that they would pay my increased hours as requested but ONLY for the 7 weeks of high season. They also admitted that they were "choosing to refuse" to do it for the rest of the season,(the season is about 4 months). They finally gave up saying they "can't" because I kept telling them that they could, but they chose not to.
I'm VERY tempted to go back to her again now and say

"being as you've just lost a time served area manager, do you REALLY want to risk losing me too over just a few hundred euros"

But I think that they are just stubborn enough to tell me to F off !?

[Sadlonelygit]

1st rule of negotiations with staff, always call their bluff.
So guessing if you start playing hardball with them, they'll fuck you off. Pretty sure they could parachute someone in at very short notice to cover for you.

[Horse]

A lot depends on the balance between 'bolshy'/'sufficiently pissed off' and needing a place to live and get paid. Also, how easy will it be to replace you?

With the balancing hours thing, are they going to decide retrospectively whether you get overtime or not?

I've worked under contracts which state 'extra reasonable time for no more money'. If you have anything like that, you're stuffed, really.

What was their choice / preference/ belief on you working on rest days?

But, whatever, if they've said, in writing, they won't pay you money you've earned, that is a. A shit employer. b. Hardly likely to encourage you to go above and beyond for them.

[Jody]

1st rule of negotiations with staff, always call their bluff.
So guessing if you start playing hardball with them, they'll fuck you off. Pretty sure they could parachute someone in at very short notice to cover for you.

Maybe they can, but with less than 2 months of the contract left, I can't see people jumping at the chance? ( it is a minimum wage job!)