This time next year, President Trump moves back into the Whitehouse...

[Taipan]

He's a businessman as well as an investor. They don't just leave money in stocks & shares.

Exactly. My point is that he's such a bad businessman and investor that anybody could've made more money than him by doing essentially nothing.

The big-name businessmen and investors have increased their wealth by millions of times over. He's managed 5.

I very much doubt anyone could at all. His success will mock many others failures, although i'm sure that applies to people upstream of his success, but he then Trumped their success with a presidency as the icing on the cake and a very probable second term too. Like him or loathe him, he is an American success story and by the end of his second term I suspect he'll be a deca-billionaire with a firm place in American history and probably folklore too after surviving the assignation attempt. Moron. Seriously!

[Taipan]

He's a businessman as well as an investor. They don't just leave money in stocks & shares. He used his acumen and increased his wealth dramatically . He's everything from a property developer to a venture capitalist. He changed zoning laws in NYC to suit his developments. He brought in multiple city projects under budget and before time. You don't get to be a multi Billionaire by being useless and stupid. He used every tax break possible because its the smart thing to do. Remember the famous interaction between him and Hilary Clinton over it? In case you dont...

Would you like to be one of his suppliers, and have your business and livelihood dependent on him paying your invoices on time?

Strange thing to ask me? I'm not a businessman?

[Slenver]

He's a businessman as well as an investor. They don't just leave money in stocks & shares.

Exactly. My point is that he's such a bad businessman and investor that anybody could've made more money than him by doing essentially nothing.

The big-name businessmen and investors have increased their wealth by millions of times over. He's managed 5.

I very much doubt anyone could at all. His success will mock many others failures, although i'm sure that applies to people upstream of his success, but he then Trumped their success with a presidency as the icing on the cake and a very probable second term too. Like him or loathe him, he is an American success story and by the end of his second term I suspect he'll be a deca-billionaire with a firm place in American history and probably folklore too after surviving the assignation attempt. Moron. Seriously!

Well, much of this is subjective and we're clearly not going to agree on much here!

I imagine he'll earn a firm place in American history, yes... though on a level somewhere between Nixon and Hitler, hopefully merely a Nixon.

[cheb]

He's a businessman as well as an investor. They don't just leave money in stocks & shares. He used his acumen and increased his wealth dramatically . He's everything from a property developer to a venture capitalist. He changed zoning laws in NYC to suit his developments. He brought in multiple city projects under budget and before time. You don't get to be a multi Billionaire by being useless and stupid. He used every tax break possible because its the smart thing to do. Remember the famous interaction between him and Hilary Clinton over it? In case you dont...

Would you like to be one of his suppliers, and have your business and livelihood dependent on him paying your invoices on time?

Isn't that the same as any business though? Especially ones that choose to deal with UK local authorities, health boards and the like.

[Slenver]

Isn't that the same as any business though? Especially ones that choose to deal with UK local authorities, health boards and the like.

I think the point is that he's famous for not paying his bills and stiffing contractors etc.

He's been sued over 3,500 times for not paying his bills.... (!) It's hard to even fathom the level of greed and crookedness. I mean, one's careless, two's bad, three there's a pattern of dishonesty.... three and a half THOUSAND?!

When the shit gets really bad, he files for bankruptcy. Six times so far.

You'd have to be very stupid or just not care about money to ever do any business with him.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I think you'd have to be pretty dumb to have a system of finance/government which allows such behaviour, but it's the same over here

[Horse]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... KM2zaH9dZa

The documents confirmed that Mr Trump paid no federal taxes in 2020 and only $750 (£622) in 2016 and 2017. He paid close to $1m in 2018, however. A long legal battle led to the release of the records, and Mr Trump criticised the disclosure, warning that it will deepen the US political divide.

[Slenver]

I think you'd have to be pretty dumb to have a system of finance/government which allows such behaviour, but it's the same over here

TBH, it's not a system as such, just his mob tactics. If he owes someone 10k and they sue him, he just threatens them - he'll use his infinitely more expensive and experienced lawyers to sue them back and to publicly denigrate them. There's no way they can afford to fight so they give in.

There's a very interesting article here (it's short too, well worth a read!) about how he does it. The example here is quite extreme... one of his usual business failures that lost him $287 MILLION. He walked away and didn't bother paying, and when the banks came after him he just sued them back claiming they were harassing him for the money. They couldn't afford the negative publicity and legal costs and wrote it off.

Essentially, he's not a businessman at all... he just tries crazy ideas left right and centre (airlines, steaks, universities etc etc), they all fail, he walks away and threatens his creditors enough until they give up. He's done this 4,000 times apparently (!). if the shit really hits the fan, he claims bankruptcy and the debts get set back to zero.

He even brags about it (quotes in that article). Like I say, he's basically just a successful conman. I expect Tiepin will just take the 'successful' out of that accolade and run with it, which is what all his followers do, but to me he's merely a common crook with no morals whatosever.

As to his wealth... it's all borrowed debt. His businesses that actually survive are mainly loss-making. That's almost certainly a factor at least as to why he ran for president in the first place, to make money from it and to claim immunity from prosecution.

[Taipan]

I think you'd have to be pretty dumb to have a system of finance/government which allows such behaviour, but it's the same over here

TBH, it's not a system as such, just his mob tactics. If he owes someone 10k and they sue him, he just threatens them - he'll use his infinitely more expensive and experienced lawyers to sue them back and to publicly denigrate them. There's no way they can afford to fight so they give in.

There's a very interesting article here (it's short too, well worth a read!) about how he does it. The example here is quite extreme... one of his usual business failures that lost him $287 MILLION. He walked away and didn't bother paying, and when the banks came after him he just sued them back claiming they were harassing him for the money. They couldn't afford the negative publicity and legal costs and wrote it off.

Essentially, he's not a businessman at all... he just tries crazy ideas left right and centre (airlines, steaks, universities etc etc), they all fail, he walks away and threatens his creditors enough until they give up. He's done this 4,000 times apparently (!). if the shit really hits the fan, he claims bankruptcy and the debts get set back to zero.

He even brags about it (quotes in that article). Like I say, he's basically just a successful conman. I expect Tiepin will just take the 'successful' out of that accolade and run with it, which is what all his followers do, but to me he's merely a common crook with no morals whatosever.

As to his wealth... it's all borrowed debt. His businesses that actually survive are mainly loss-making. That's almost certainly a factor at least as to why he ran for president in the first place, to make money from it and to claim immunity from prosecution.

Sadly its how a lot of big businesses work. Deepest pockets wins. You'd have to be pretty naive to think Trump is alone in this. Nearer to home try Sir Phillip Green, but its a very long list if you want to look at how the big boys play.

You fail if you don't try. If you try and you fail, yes, you'll have a few articles saying you've failed at something. But if you look at the history of American entrepreneurs, one thing I do know about them: An awful lot of them have tried things and failed in the past and gone on to great things.

[wheelnut]

Sadly its how a lot of big businesses work. Deepest pockets wins. You'd have to be pretty naive to think Trump is alone in this. Nearer to home try Sir Phillip Green, but its a very long list if you want to look at how the big boys play.

It really isn’t. Business operates on trust to a large degree. It has to. Most businesses in NYC will not work with him as suppliers or contractors.

My point is that if you wouldn’t supply his businesses with goods or services due to him being capricious and unreliable then why on earth would you want him at the helm of the biggest economy in the world?

[Slenver]

You'd have to be pretty naive to think Trump is alone in this. Nearer to home try Sir Phillip Green, but its a very long list if you want to look at how the big boys play.

I'm not naive at all, I'm well aware that there are unscrupulous men and con artists in business everywhere, but two scumbags at the bottom of the barrel don't make a right.

What Philip Green has done is minuscule in terms of both scale and dishonesty compared to trump, and yet he is in disgrace. I don't see anybody voting him in for PM.

You fail if you don't try. If you try and you fail, yes, you'll have a few articles saying you've failed at something. But if you look at the history of American entrepreneurs, one thing I do know about them: An awful lot of them have tried things and failed in the past and gone on to great things.

Again, this is perspective that you've drawn a very different conclusion from, but what Branson is saying (and has done himself) is work hard to build businesses that have ultimately gone on to fail, so he's dusted himself down and started again.

That's just having balls and commitment.

What trump has done is learnt how to cheat to deprive his workers out of their livelihoods and banks out of their investments, and this model of scam involves businesses set up to fail.

They are literally examples of, respectively, honesty and dishonesty in action.

[Taipan]

Sadly its how a lot of big businesses work. Deepest pockets wins. You'd have to be pretty naive to think Trump is alone in this. Nearer to home try Sir Phillip Green, but its a very long list if you want to look at how the big boys play.

It really isn’t. Business operates on trust to a large degree. It has to. Most businesses in NYC will not work with him as suppliers or contractors.

My point is that if you wouldn’t supply his businesses with goods or services due to him being capricious and unreliable then why on earth would you want him at the helm of the biggest economy in the world?

But loads of people do supply his businesses or he wouldn't have any. I'd imagine its quite a coup to be in the supply chain for his prestigious businesses!

[Taipan]

You'd have to be pretty naive to think Trump is alone in this. Nearer to home try Sir Phillip Green, but its a very long list if you want to look at how the big boys play.

I'm not naive at all, I'm well aware that there are unscrupulous men and con artists in business everywhere, but two scumbags at the bottom of the barrel don't make a right.

What Philip Green has done is minuscule in terms of both scale and dishonesty compared to trump, and yet he is in disgrace. I don't see anybody voting him in for PM.

Because Trump is trying to do something for his country. I don't see SPG standing up to try and do some good and pay back his community, he's too busy playing Super Yachts.

You fail if you don't try. If you try and you fail, yes, you'll have a few articles saying you've failed at something. But if you look at the history of American entrepreneurs, one thing I do know about them: An awful lot of them have tried things and failed in the past and gone on to great things.

Again, this is perspective that you've drawn a very different conclusion from, but what Branson is saying (and has done himself) is work hard to build businesses that have ultimately gone on to fail, so he's dusted himself down and started again.

That's just having balls and commitment.

What trump has done is learnt how to cheat to deprive his workers out of their livelihoods and banks out of their investments, and this model of scam involves businesses set up to fail.

They are literally examples of, respectively, honesty and dishonesty in action.

So Branson and every other bankrupt businessman/woman never deprived any creditors when they failed etc. Businesses don't go skint as an overnight surprise, the writing is on the wall for a fair old time, yet they continue trading etc. So what you say isn't rational, its just Trump hating, which I get you do, but you're singling him out for that reason and not holding others culpable for the same.

[cheb]

I think Trump is less Green or Branson and more Phoenix Windows (2022) Ltd.

[cheb]

One of the Fat Lady chefs seemed proud of being bankrupted multiple times IIRC.

[DefTrap]

I'm not sure the argument "I'm not corrupt. Oh, well I mean I'm only as corrupt as these other guys so that doesn't count so stop having a pop because 'I'm trying to do something for my country'" holds much water. But it's used quite a lot by the rich and influential, and we applaud them for it, the ones we like obviously.

[wheelnut]

But loads of people do supply his businesses or he wouldn't have any. I'd imagine its quite a coup to be in the supply chain for his prestigious businesses!

From what I read (albeit a few years ago - in industry journals, not political hack pieces) no one, especially in NY, will work with him any more. He needs to do it partnership with a trusted contractor or pay up front/escrow. The credit score for his businesses is woeful.

Yes, there are other people like him (I don’t think Branson is) but I wouldn’t want them to run a country either.

Maybe it’s just me being naive. I assume that everyone would want a person of (reasonably) good character to be in the White House.

[wheelnut]

I think Trump is less Green or Branson and more Phoenix Windows (2022) Ltd.

Sums it up nicely.

[cheb]

Off on a tangent I know but it's curious how some people are forgiven things and others aren't. The entertainment industry is rife with it.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Depends if you can pen a half decent song or movie about it really.