Who Will You Vote For?

[Noggin]

But you carry your driving licence with you? Surely that's a control?

Some of us choose to carry our driving licences, we don't have to. Presumably, a mandated ID card would have to be produced on demand (otherwise, why bother?) that's the sticking point.

But if asked to produce it by, for instance, a traffic cop; you'd have to then go home and get it to take it to a police station, no?

There's something of a principle involved when the State says 'In order to control crime and keep you safe we must assume everyone is a potential criminal'. Which is fine-ish if the State isn't corrupt and 'criminal' doesn't mean you want to kick them out.

Cards are a bit rubbish, people can leave them at home and fakes can be made. Who could possibly object if they were replaced with a little chip?..it works for pets. Similar principle - you have a unique identifier but you can't lose it or forget it. You wouldn't need to fumble for it in order to be scanned etc etc. You could be ID'd when you walk in through the door to, well, anywhere.

Anyone got a problem with that?

Maybe some aren't in a rush to hop on a slippery slope in a world where governments can change quite dramatically?

Can't imagine the Fronch accepting a chip with the fuss they've made about the MOT for bikes! But an ID card is just carried and no one expects to be chipped in the near future (or the far future for that matter!!)

[Saga Lout]

But you carry your driving licence with you? Surely that's a control?

Some of us choose to carry our driving licences, we don't have to. Presumably, a mandated ID card would have to be produced on demand (otherwise, why bother?) that's the sticking point.

But if asked to produce it by, for instance, a traffic cop; you'd have to then go home and get it to take it to a police station, no?

IF I went out driving without my wallet.
AND a traffic cop had reason to ask for it.
THEN yes.

But if a traffic or other cop demanded it as I was walking down the street I would (probably politely) invite him to bugger off.

[Mussels]

Can't imagine the Fronch accepting a chip with the fuss they've made about the MOT for bikes! But an ID card is just carried and no one expects to be chipped in the near future(or the far future for that matter!!)

Did you expect Marine Le Pen to get popular so suddenly?

[Count Steer]

They don't really need to chip people anyway. People carry them around quite happily and get quite panic-stricken if they go out without them. There's far more data about you on the mobile phone than they'd get on a single chip.

Just need to make life difficult to survive without a mobile. Ah....

[irie]

I can't think of a single reason why it would be necessary, why give authorities more power they can abuse?

Exactly. It's not a question that they would currently be abused, it's a question that in the future they could be abused.

[irie]

Can't imagine the Fronch accepting a chip with the fuss they've made about the MOT for bikes! But an ID card is just carried and no one expects to be chipped in the near future (or the far future for that matter!!)

All those who've had Covid jabs are already chipped so no big deal of course.

[JackyJoll]

It's law here to carry driving licence when driving so always have it my wallet rather than forget it.
I have private health insurance so always need to carry my card as their NHS doesn't cover me.

And always carry my TIE card as never know when I'll need it. Everything is linked to the TIE card

None of this is a hardship.

Is a tie card like a cardboard shirt front?

[Noggin]

Can't imagine the Fronch accepting a chip with the fuss they've made about the MOT for bikes! But an ID card is just carried and no one expects to be chipped in the near future(or the far future for that matter!!)

Did you expect Marine Le Pen to get popular so suddenly?

Nope - but then I didn't expect the Brits to vote for Brexit! So what do I know! LOL

I was only asking, I don't have a massive opinion about it cos I will be required to carry an ID card if I get nationality and I automatically carry my passport card and driving licence anyway - and my health card and residency card. So it makes no difference to me I would have been happy to have one in the UK . Just wondered why people are so against it

They don't really need to chip people anyway. People carry them around quite happily and get quite panic-stricken if they go out without them. There's far more data about you on the mobile phone than they'd get on a single chip.

Just need to make life difficult to survive without a mobile. Ah....

But, that's part of my confusion. Most of life could be tracked so easily if 'someone/the man' wanted to - between phones, shop cards, credit cards etc. So whats the problem with an ID card that may or may not be asked for if there's an issue that you walk into/have?

[Saga Lout]

Can't imagine the Fronch accepting a chip with the fuss they've made about the MOT for bikes! But an ID card is just carried and no one expects to be chipped in the near future(or the far future for that matter!!)

Did you expect Marine Le Pen to get popular so suddenly?

Nope - but then I didn't expect the Brits to vote for Brexit! So what do I know! LOL

I was only asking, I don't have a massive opinion about it cos I will be required to carry an ID card if I get nationality and I automatically carry my passport card and driving licence anyway - and my health card and residency card. So it makes no difference to me I would have been happy to have one in the UK . Just wondered why people are so against it

They don't really need to chip people anyway. People carry them around quite happily and get quite panic-stricken if they go out without them. There's far more data about you on the mobile phone than they'd get on a single chip.

Just need to make life difficult to survive without a mobile. Ah....

But, that's part of my confusion. Most of life could be tracked so easily if 'someone/the man' wanted to - between phones, shop cards, credit cards etc. So whats the problem with an ID card that may or may not be asked for if there's an issue that you walk into/have?

“The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.”
Pat Miller, Willfully Ignorant

We have been gradually losing our freedoms for many years, mostly "for our own safety". The erosion of our freedoms should be resisted at every step, whether it affects us personally or not.

[Taipan]

It's law here to carry driving licence when driving so always have it my wallet rather than forget it.
I have private health insurance so always need to carry my card as their NHS doesn't cover me.

And always carry my TIE card as never know when I'll need it. Everything is linked to the TIE card

None of this is a hardship.

I didn't know what a TIE card is so looked it up. In case anyone else didn't know...

What is the TIE and what is it used for?
TIE stands for tarjeta de identidad de extranjero, or foreigner ID card. As its name suggests, it’s a document that proves that a foreigner is living legally in Spain. The card includes personal data, a photograph, and the holder’s NIE (número de identidad de extranjero, or foreigner ID number). It also states the type of residence permit that the cardholder has. Although it’s a unique and non-transferrable document, it does also allow you to register any children under the age of 18 or disabled children, if necessary.

The TIE is simply proof that a foreigner is authorized to live in Spain. Therefore, you should try to always have it on hand in case you have to prove your legal status in Spain.

[Noggin]

It's law here to carry driving licence when driving so always have it my wallet rather than forget it.
I have private health insurance so always need to carry my card as their NHS doesn't cover me.

And always carry my TIE card as never know when I'll need it. Everything is linked to the TIE card

None of this is a hardship.

I didn't know what a TIE card is so looked it up. In case anyone else didn't know...

What is the TIE and what is it used for?
TIE stands for tarjeta de identidad de extranjero, or foreigner ID card. As its name suggests, it’s a document that proves that a foreigner is living legally in Spain. The card includes personal data, a photograph, and the holder’s NIE (número de identidad de extranjero, or foreigner ID number). It also states the type of residence permit that the cardholder has. Although it’s a unique and non-transferrable document, it does also allow you to register any children under the age of 18 or disabled children, if necessary.

The TIE is simply proof that a foreigner is authorized to live in Spain. Therefore, you should try to always have it on hand in case you have to prove your legal status in Spain.

Like the Carte de Sejour that I carry - only I call mine a residency card! LOL

[irie]

Like the Carte de Sejour that I carry - only I call mine a residency card! LOL

In other words an ID card for foreigners proving that they are authorised to reside in the UK.

Would go down nicely with UK illegal immigrants and large numbers of legal immigrants who have been denied the right to reside in the UK but have failed to leave.

The squeals that their human rights are being denied would be heard loud and clear!

[DefTrap]

Like the Carte de Sejour that I carry - only I call mine a residency card! LOL

Mine is in my wallet, but only because otherwise I will definitely forget it when travelling to the UK and then I'll fall foul of the snarky border control. In 15 years of living here, le plod have never found a reason to ask me to identify myself other than producing my DL at the roadside, which is no more of a liberty-taker than the honourable British constabulary. I dunno why it's always cried about like it's some big infringement of civil liberties - typically it only really impacts folk who frequently arse about. Yes, I'm aware that there is potential for abuse but meh.

[gremlin]

If only I was aware all those years ago, when given my shiny, new National Insurance Number Card, that it was the thin end of the wedge in terms of governmental snooping akin to 1984...


As for having to carry any sort of ID card, it would have saved me some bloody messing about this morning.

[cheb]

If yes to identity cards then is being fingerprinted at birth ok? If not why not?

And why no to the implanted chip idea?

If you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to fear etc. If it saves one life...

I can't say I like the idea of it being compulsory but an optional free identity card might be a good idea. Up to the moment it's made mandatory. I mean that would never happen, just like anti terror laws haven't been misused.

[Taipan]

Whats the point of an ID card if you don't carry one, so would that be enforced? I dislike the idea of being forced to carry ID whilst I go about my lawful business. it smacks of the innocent paying for the crimes of the guilty.

[Yambo]

I carry my Residency card with me all the time and if I'm leaving the village I'll have my passport with me - I keep it in my man-bag. I only rarely need it. I carried an ID card for 23 years as a squaddie and it is no big deal.

The government simply don't have the resources to keep tabs on the bad guys let alone the general population so if you're worried, you suffer from a bit of paranoia I think.

Being able to prove who you are isn't any real infringement on civil liberties.

[Noggin]

Like the Carte de Sejour that I carry - only I call mine a residency card! LOL

In other words an ID card for foreigners proving that they are authorised to reside in the UK.

Would go down nicely with UK illegal immigrants and large numbers of legal immigrants who have been denied the right to reside in the UK but have failed to leave.

The squeals that their human rights are being denied would be heard loud and clear!

I suppose so. But if the nationals have to carry their ID card, why shouldn't I be required to carry the foreigners equivalent? Those of us that choose to live here go through a process to get residency and at that point get a residency card, I guess because we can't have an ID card as we aren't French.

When in Rome etc (they've probably go different rules before someone explains that to me!!)

Like the Carte de Sejour that I carry - only I call mine a residency card! LOL

Mine is in my wallet, but only because otherwise I will definitely forget it when travelling to the UK and then I'll fall foul of the snarky border control. In 15 years of living here, le plod have never found a reason to ask me to identify myself other than producing my DL at the roadside, which is no more of a liberty-taker than the honourable British constabulary. I dunno why it's always cried about like it's some big infringement of civil liberties - typically it only really impacts folk who frequently arse about. Yes, I'm aware that there is potential for abuse but meh.

I've only been asked for the residency card by a gendarme who actually didn't need to see it because the EU passport trumps the residency card. But I wasn't about to explain that to him as the carte de sejour was in my wallet, so he had that (along with the passport card, driving licence, card that says I'm allowed to drive passengers and some paperwork that says I can driver passengers to GVA! He was a pissy copper, but they carry guns, so I didn't tell him he was wrong!! )

I have handed it over in various situations where I needed ID - hospital A&E, various offices of paperwork etc

Whats the point of an ID card if you don't carry one, so would that be enforced? I dislike the idea of being forced to carry ID whilst I go about my lawful business. it smacks of the innocent paying for the crimes of the guilty.

My understanding here is that the French are required to carry the ID card - as a matter of course it is in the wallets of most people I know along side their driving licence.

I was told I had to carry my residency card and as I have to have my passport and driving licence on me for work, another photo ID card makes no real difference. Although for a couple of months I didn't as the EU passport means that in theory I don't need the residency card - luckily I put it back in my wallet a couple of weeks before being stopped by a gendarme who 'unnecessarily' wanted to see it

[irie]

Like the Carte de Sejour that I carry - only I call mine a residency card! LOL

In other words an ID card for foreigners proving that they are authorised to reside in the UK.

Would go down nicely with UK illegal immigrants and large numbers of legal immigrants who have been denied the right to reside in the UK but have failed to leave.

The squeals that their human rights are being denied would be heard loud and clear!

I suppose so. But if the nationals have to carry their ID card, why shouldn't I be required to carry the foreigners equivalent? Those of us that choose to live here go through a process to get residency and at that point get a residency card, I guess because we can't have an ID card as we aren't French.

When in Rome etc (they've probably go different rules before someone explains that to me!!)

In the reply to my above post you have ignored the key point which was about some likely implications of introducing ID cards in the UK.

[Noggin]

In other words an ID card for foreigners proving that they are authorised to reside in the UK.

Would go down nicely with UK illegal immigrants and large numbers of legal immigrants who have been denied the right to reside in the UK but have failed to leave.

The squeals that their human rights are being denied would be heard loud and clear!

I suppose so. But if the nationals have to carry their ID card, why shouldn't I be required to carry the foreigners equivalent? Those of us that choose to live here go through a process to get residency and at that point get a residency card, I guess because we can't have an ID card as we aren't French.

When in Rome etc (they've probably go different rules before someone explains that to me!!)

In the reply to my above post you have ignored the key point which was about some likely implications of introducing ID cards in the UK.

Like I've said, I don't see an issue with the card for immigrants (being one I chose not to complain when having to do the equivalent of what the nationals have to do ! ). Of course it wouldn't work if only introduced for immigrants - and won't be introduced for nationals.

I'm still not totally understanding of why Brits are anti given all the other ways that they can be 'tracked' that no one complains about. But hey - I don't understand the Brits!!