Who Will You Vote For?

[wheelnut]

I'm hoping a good trashing in Scotland will give the SNP the clear mandate they are always banging on about, they will take it as a sign that nobody wants independence and disband.

Even if they do get a good trashing, they will declare it as a huge success.

[cheb]

They've even been gifted an excuse for a poor showing, the postal ballot problems.

[gremlin]

I shall be fucking glad when this is all over tomorrow, and we can go on living being told what to do, how to act, who not to upset, and how much poorer I am every single year as a result of governmental economists lying through their teeth about real world inflation and interest rates all whilst ignoring fiscal drag, rather than enjoying the illusion that I can make a difference at all even for a single day!

Out of interest, which political party in the UK would make things satisfactory for you? For example, you don't like being told what to do...presumably a party that advocates the abolition of the law/police. Not seeing that in any manifesto.
Who not to upset? Turn that around: who do you want to upset?
Who's lying about inflation? Most of the economists I read are independent, albeit with a political leaning. Where's your research?
Lying about interest rates. What lie? They're at 5.25% in this country. Other countries have other base rates. Go look at the BoE/other central bank website if you don't believe me.
Why can't you make a difference? Are you being specifically persecuted? I'd go to the police if you are. Hang on...see your first point. You don't like people telling other people what to do. Scrub that.


So...I'm all ears. Give us the master plan. See, I'm all for reasoned debate and sensible suggestions (P.R., for example), but 6th-form common room outbursts are just pointless.

[Horse]

Massive no vote 50% + puts massive pressure for system change.

Really? You anticipate, expect, that they'll go all "Oh, we've got it wrong." Then choose to change automatically change to something 'right' to your views.

How would that happen?

[Horse]

A prediction:

UK General Election 2024 #5 – My Final Forecast as of 3rd July 2024
July 3, 2024 By Nigel

My third and final forecast of the number of seats to be won by each party in the 2024 UK General Election is –

CON 130 (+17)
LAB 420 (-17)
LD 50
SNP 25
GRN 3
PC 2
REF 2
OTH NI 18

The numbers in brackets are the changes from my second forecast of 30th June 2024.

This article is based on polling data as of 2000 on 3rd July 2024. If more polling data comes in and causes me to change my forescript, the changes will be detailed in a postscript at the end of the article.

This guy has a track record of being fairly accurate.

https://marriott-stats.com/nigels-blog/ ... orecast-3/

[mangocrazy]

Massive no vote 50% + puts massive pressure for system change. Never happen though.

You got it right in the second sentence. The winner of the election will simply ignore those who didn't vote. They will also most likely ignore those who did vote, to be fair.

[gremlin]

IIRC, 2011 we had a bit of a referendum to see if we wanted PR, as opposed to FPTP. I seem to recall about 2/3 of the folk of this fine nation gave it a resounding fuck off.

Shall we have another one?

Like Brexit losers want another one?

Or the SNP want another one?

Have one every week perhaps. Or to settle the argument, each General Election does it a different way in turn. FPTP, PR, sing off, arm wrestle...

[gremlin]

Massive no vote 50% + puts massive pressure for system change. Never happen though.

You got it right in the second sentence. The winner of the election will simply ignore those who didn't vote. They will also most likely ignore those who did vote, to be fair.

Ensuring you can't accuse them of bias

[Potter]

I shall be fucking glad when this is all over tomorrow, and we can go on living being told what to do, how to act, who not to upset, and how much poorer I am every single year as a result of governmental economists lying through their teeth about real world inflation and interest rates all whilst ignoring fiscal drag, rather than enjoying the illusion that I can make a difference at all even for a single day!

I think you're right about some of that and if you sit and do not very much about it then you will be a victim of all that stuff you've just typed that you think is unavoidable.

You can't singlehandedly change the government, but you can singlehandedly completely change your own circumstances.

Invent a machine that harnesses moaning, you'd be rich just from this thread.

[Mussels]

It's worth remembering people that under FPTP we only have the illusion of Democracy... Here is a full list of all the European countries that still use FPTP rather than proportional representation...

-Belarus
-United Kingdom

Two kleptocracies controlled by the Oligarchy... Oh what joy!

So as much as I want the Tories out, if I continue to support the FPTP system just by voting tactically, then I can't really complain that they don't abolish FPTP can I...

I shall be fucking glad when this is all over tomorrow, and we can go on living being told what to do, how to act, who not to upset, and how much poorer I am every single year as a result of governmental economists lying through their teeth about real world inflation and interest rates all whilst ignoring fiscal drag, rather than enjoying the illusion that I can make a difference at all even for a single day!

That's a very blinkered view of PR, put forward by agencies to suit their own agendas.
PR isn't a single thing, like autism it's a sliding scale with everyone on the spectrum somewhere. When the Libdems say they want PR it just means they want the version that suits them best.
If the UK was truly FPTP then there would be no need for parliament.

[cheb]

Scotland has a PR variant for the big parish council. I can't say for sure whether the competence of the governing parties was better or worse than Westminster.

[Count Steer]

I've voted.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I was gonna vote this morning so I don't have to take baby D. I then googled "can you bring children to the polling station?" and discovered you're actively encouraged to do so!

So we're having a family outing tonight instead.

[mboy]

Out of interest, which political party in the UK would make things satisfactory for you? For example, you don't like being told what to do...presumably a party that advocates the abolition of the law/police. Not seeing that in any manifesto.
Who not to upset? Turn that around: who do you want to upset?
Who's lying about inflation? Most of the economists I read are independent, albeit with a political leaning. Where's your research?
Lying about interest rates. What lie? They're at 5.25% in this country. Other countries have other base rates. Go look at the BoE/other central bank website if you don't believe me.
Why can't you make a difference? Are you being specifically persecuted? I'd go to the police if you are. Hang on...see your first point. You don't like people telling other people what to do. Scrub that.


So...I'm all ears. Give us the master plan. See, I'm all for reasoned debate and sensible suggestions (P.R., for example), but 6th-form common room outbursts are just pointless.

Crikey! Well the prize for taking everything far too literally for the day is certainly yours… Let me know where to send it

Where did I mention the police?!?!

If you only listen to or read fully independent economists then hats off to you… Show us where they all are please… Most have vested interests one way or another even if no direct political affiliation. I was however referring to the government spivs telling us its raining whilst they’re pissing on us from a great height, arguing that inflation was only 3% when the real world cost of living was increasing greater than 10% annually. The lies about interest rates were that sub 1% was sustainable forever, which anybody who’s got more than half a brain would realise was absolute bullshit. Then of course the lies that it had to go up, but wouldn’t go up by much… Then of course the lies that once it had gone up by 5% in weeks because Liz Truss tanked the economy, that they would bring them back down to 3% or lower within a year…

As for persecution… Well cuts to the NHS and the total shit fest it is in very nearly cost me my life. My ongoing oncology treatment (or lack of it) has been so sub standard as to be criminally negligent! My surgeon botched my first surgery, subsequent operations to fix the infection and save my life were required (along with more than 6 months off work), before I finally gave up and paid to go private to “fix the fixes” that again were just bodges… You want an argument? Well I suggest you don’t argue with the person that feels like they have absolutely nothing to lose!

No need to be such an objectionable dickhead to someone merely venting their frustration towards the endless lies that we have been told by the incumbent government, and the lies being told by the inevitable alternative too!

[mboy]

I shall be fucking glad when this is all over tomorrow, and we can go on living being told what to do, how to act, who not to upset, and how much poorer I am every single year as a result of governmental economists lying through their teeth about real world inflation and interest rates all whilst ignoring fiscal drag, rather than enjoying the illusion that I can make a difference at all even for a single day!

I think you're right about some of that and if you sit and do not very much about it then you will be a victim of all that stuff you've just typed that you think is unavoidable.

You can't singlehandedly change the government, but you can singlehandedly completely change your own circumstances.

Invent a machine that harnesses moaning, you'd be rich just from this thread.

I speak mostly in jest… Humour is the best method of dealing with the madness I find.

I do anything/everything I can to improve my own circumstances. But there is and always will be, things completely out of your control that we are too reliant on other people for sadly (for instance, getting Cancer)… Having both dealt with Cancer myself, and my GF, you’ll understand my anger towards those who use the NHS as a bargaining chip…

[mboy]

It's worth remembering people that under FPTP we only have the illusion of Democracy... Here is a full list of all the European countries that still use FPTP rather than proportional representation...

-Belarus
-United Kingdom

Two kleptocracies controlled by the Oligarchy... Oh what joy!

So as much as I want the Tories out, if I continue to support the FPTP system just by voting tactically, then I can't really complain that they don't abolish FPTP can I...

I shall be fucking glad when this is all over tomorrow, and we can go on living being told what to do, how to act, who not to upset, and how much poorer I am every single year as a result of governmental economists lying through their teeth about real world inflation and interest rates all whilst ignoring fiscal drag, rather than enjoying the illusion that I can make a difference at all even for a single day!

That's a very blinkered view of PR, put forward by agencies to suit their own agendas.
PR isn't a single thing, like autism it's a sliding scale with everyone on the spectrum somewhere. When the Libdems say they want PR it just means they want the version that suits them best.
If the UK was truly FPTP then there would be no need for parliament.

You think I don’t understand that PR isn’t flawed as well…?

Christ on a bike…

Politics is flawed full stop.

It’s just that proportional representation, flaws and all, is very slightly less flawed that the abhorrent FPTP system which only ever delivers a very slightly different flavour of the same shit, each and every time come election time. FPTP would arguably give a bigger voice to the radicals for sure, but then it would also stop those within the mainstream parties believing that they needed to radicalise themselves in order to garner votes. If we accept that in any civilised system, 20% are always going to vote radically one way or the other either out of protest or cos they genuinely hold hard right/left beliefs, then we can stop those who are genuinely trying to get the 80% to vote for them from trying to appeal to the radicals too…

I’m starting a petition as soon as this election is over… #makepoliticsboringagain

Who’s with me?

[Felix]

Voting for no one. After throwing a dart it my postal vote slip i put it in the envelope only for it to return to me two days later. I put the address slip in the wrong way round

I suggest two new forum rules:

If you don't vote, you can't post on political matters.

If you do vote, you can post on the condition you don't keep harping on, and on, and on, ad infinitum, like some sort of deranged, delirious parrot with a political leaning.

But i did vote. I just fucked up with the address slip window and as for harping on, how many posts have you in this thread? Think this is my second.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Third rule.

If you can't put a letter in an envelope the correct way around you're not allowed to vote

[gremlin]

Where did I mention the police?!?!

Who else tells you what to do? Taxman? Parking Warden? Cinema usher? Tell us who's taking this dictatorial stand. It's outrageous.

If you only listen to or read fully independent economists then hats off to you… Show us where they all are please…

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflatio ... l%20series.
ONS. Independent body, disliked by the Tories as they call out their bullshit. If you click that link you'll see inflation was recorded as 14.9%. Where did you get 3% from?

As for persecution… Well cuts to the NHS and the total shit fest it is in very nearly cost me my life. My ongoing oncology treatment (or lack of it) has been so sub standard as to be criminally negligent! My surgeon botched my first surgery, subsequent operations to fix the infection and save my life were required (along with more than 6 months off work), before I finally gave up and paid to go private to “fix the fixes” that again were just bodges… You want an argument? Well I suggest you don’t argue with the person that feels like they have absolutely nothing to lose!

Just you being given shite treatment by the NHS then? Sorry for your problems, but most of the people in this country love the NHS, Gawd bless 'em, before telling you tales of how shit their treatment has been. You think any party is gonna make that better overnight? Here's one suggestion. Start charging for G.P. appointments unless you get free prescriptions. Cut the malingerers, make a few quid for the NHS. Have that one for free. Sending kids up chimneys is another one, but I think Reform are gonna announce that policy this afternoon.

No need to be such an objectionable dickhead

I'd rather be a dickhead than somebody who sits shouting that everything is shit from the sidelines, yet offering nothing of use. As I said, I'm all ears waiting for your suggestions as to how we make this a land of milk and honey.

[Bustaspoke]

I cast my vote this morning,& for the first time in years I'm optimistic about the result.
I was voting late morning & the bloke who walked in behind me couldn't vote as he'd forgot to bring the required identification,they said that he's the first voter that they've had to turn away so most people seem to be on message.
Don't forget your I.d