Who Will You Vote For?

[mangocrazy]

I worked as an IT contractor for Severn Trent Water from May 1989 to December 1994. STW was privatised (along with all the other Water utilities) in July 1989. In my time there I saw massive spending on IT infrastructure (the IBM salesman must have been able to retire on his commission from that particular sale) and acquisition of buildings and other companies (Biffa being the most high profile), but heard little to nothing on their plans to upgrade the network of Victorian pipework supplying their customers. 35 years later, most of the pipes in the ground still date from Victorian times.

[Count Steer]

It's my recollection of when water was under public ownership that hardly any money was put into improving the infrastructure or building more reservoirs. That is simply down to bad management.

It's my recollection that one of the first things put up for sale when the water companies were sold was - reservoirs and the land around them.

'People also ask
Have water companies sold off reservoirs?
In the 35 years since, just one potable water reservoir has been completed – Carsington Reservoir in Derbyshire, in 1992. In fact, in recent years, water companies have even been selling off reservoirs'.

That's simply down to profiteering.

[Count Steer]

I worked as an IT contractor for Severn Trent Water from May 1989 to December 1994. STW was privatised (along with all the other Water utilities) in July 1989. In my time there I saw massive spending on IT infrastructure (the IBM salesman must have been able to retire on his commission from that particular sale) and acquisition of buildings and other companies (Biffa being the most high profile), but heard little to nothing on their plans to upgrade the network of Victorian pipework supplying their customers. 35 years later, most of the pipes in the ground still date from Victorian times.

I've been 'indoors' with a few since the sell off (Dwr Cymru, Bristol, Anglian and South Staffs). Dwr Cymru seemed more interested in getting into gas and electric and developing a consultancy/outsourcing business and South Staffs in setting up an insurance/maintenance business (Homeserve) and selling off their billing system and staff (Rapid).

(Anglian and Bristol seemed happy selling water).

PS I was at STW....for 2 days.

[mangocrazy]

In the 35 years since, just one potable water reservoir has been completed – Carsington Reservoir in Derbyshire, in 1992.

And that would have been instigated when water was still publicly owned.

[Horse]

It's my recollection of when water was under public ownership that hardly any money was put into improving the infrastructure or building more reservoirs.

Your memory is correct.

Wikipedia explains:

Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government, which had been elected in 1979, had curtailed the RWAs' ability to borrow money they deemed necessary for capital projects.[8][9][11] Daniel Okun said: "Before, they could borrow money everywhere easily. They could get money at very good rates. Restrictions on external borrowing prevented the [RWAs] from getting capital. They were considered ineffective because they could not borrow money. Thatcher prevented them from borrowing and then blamed them for not building."[9] When the European Union introduced stricter legislation on river, bathing, coastal, and drinking water quality, the sector was in no position to meet the expenditure requirements and the UK was prosecuted for noncompliance.[12][b

That is simply down to bad management.

So bad management by the government?

[Cousin Jack]

Nationalised industries were crap, private monopolies are crap. Time for a new business model?

How about publicly owned private companies? I should be possible to deliver sensible management, insulated from dead hand of the Treasury, making modest profits that come back to the public purse.

[Horse]

Go on, with a straight face, tell us that privately owned water companies are working well.

The sub text is: the private company is shit therefore it should be nationalised.

No, it wasn't. You've taken one section of a series which related to a quote from Margaret Thatcher, about socialists spending others' money.

[Mussels]

This says cost and investment have gone up since privatisation, but I have no idea if this means we got better or worse value for money.
https://fullfact.org/economy/water-bills-privatisation/

Ofwat argues that privatisation has allowed significant, and more efficient investment in improving services. It recognises that services have broadly increased in quality since privatisation, but other research suggests that water companies could do more to deliver value for customers, and have prioritised increased dividends for shareholders over providing better value.

[Yambo]

So bad management by the government?

Yes

If the owners of the company don't exercise proper control and appoint good management then they are bad managers.

The Post Office is owned by the government, it's hardly been an example of good management. Although the government don't have hands on control (which would probably also be a disaster) they have managed to allow shit managers instead.

[Count Steer]

Nationalised industries were crap, private monopolies are crap. Time for a new business model?

How about publicly owned private companies? I should be possible to deliver sensible management, insulated from dead hand of the Treasury, making modest profits that come back to the public purse.

I always thought that the original BP arrangement was reasonable - government retained, iirc, a 30% share, so had a big say in things but could be hands off and bank all those share dividends. (They sold the 30% in pretty short order* which seemed rather short term thinking to me).

Just to go back to water briefly. Pre-sell off they were non-profit (any profit went in to government coffers) so they were effectively encouraged to spend annually but couldn't build up the big £££s for major infrastructure projects (and, as mentioned above, couldn't borrow).

Similarly, people forget - or don't know - that the likes of Royal Mail contributed large amounts to the government over quite a long period.

It's just that governments think short term and are crap at managing stuff + they saw the immediate income from the sell offs but actually botched most of the privatisations and lost the direct income. Same with the North Sea. They made a lot but could have made much more over time with a better model.

* and the Kuwaitis promptly bought a controlling share% of BP (and had to be told to divest).

[Cousin Jack]

Royal Mail, back in the day, was a cash business with modest investment needed. As soon as a business needed major investment ( eg the PO Telephones) the Treasury starved them, and service became crap. Management can only go so far, no money for investment and even the best managers will fail.

[Yambo]

Royal Mail, back in the day, was a cash business with modest investment needed. As soon as a business needed major investment ( eg the PO Telephones) the Treasury starved them, and service became crap. Management can only go so far, no money for investment and even the best managers will fail.

As we are saying, the government are shit at managing public owned businesses. The owners cut funding when it was needed - simply more bad management.

[Mussels]

The SNP are demonstrating they don't want to win, even without the Green shackles he is still siding with the group that want to behead feminists.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fo ... r-BB1oeHze

Former SNP equalities officer who wanted to ‘beat up terfs’ convicted of sexual assault

[Horse]

Tourists will be welcome, but taxed.

It's feckiin expensive already to go on holiday there. Be wary about making it more so.

Otherwise the local economy will have to rely on its other main industries.

@Cousin Jack

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/news- ... 343183.amp

Cornwall Live readers have been discussing a statement by an industry expert that tourism in the South West is experiencing its lowest levels in ten years, with Cornish businesses voicing their opinions on what needs to be done to turn things around.

[Cousin Jack]

A good start would be to stop fleecing the buggers. New bar opened nearby last week, beer is £7 a pint. That is what I would expect in a smart cocktail bar, but this place is rustic wooden benches.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

My bumming hat party is doing well.
This forum appears to be largely left leaning bummers.

No surprises there really

I feel you need to up your game, you could either offer some poorly thought out, unfunded policy that no one really wants or slag off the other parties to try and make your party look better

[mangocrazy]

I really feel that Potter is taking his followers for granted - no manifesto, no policy details and not even any election communications. It all smacks of complacency...

[Mr. Dazzle]

Some of us are grass roots bummers, we don't need a flashy attention grabbing policy.

[KungFooBob]

Reachrounds for everyone!

[Taipan]

I really feel that Potter is taking his followers for granted - no manifesto, no policy details and not even any election communications. It all smacks of complacency...

So he's really a labour candidate!