Who Will You Vote For?

[Count Steer]

^^^^Yeah, yeah I know. tl:dr

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

As long as parties need to keep a majority happy to 'buy' votes....we're stuffed.
As long as parties see power as a means to stuff their own pockets...we're stuffed.
As long as parties only aim to keep one part of the electorate happy...we're stuffed.
As long as we insist that first past the post is the only workable system...we're stuffed.

The end.

[Cousin Jack]

That ^ about sums it up. UK mainstream politics is broken, new 'champions' emerge but are not credible governments. Radical change is needed, but looks very unlikely to happen. We are fcuked.

[Noggin]

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

I see Macron like that. He does seem to be considered, do what's necessary - but the public don't like him and are close to voting in a Nazi. FFS, a Nazi in France, voted in??

[Saga Lout]

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

I see Macron like that. He does seem to be considered, do what's necessary - but the public don't like him and are close to voting in a Nazi. FFS, a Nazi in France, voted in??

And that's part of the problem. The Overton window has shifted so far to the left that anybody espousing what were common sense, middle of the road values from 30 or 40 years ago is labelled extreme right or a Nazi.

[Noggin]

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

I see Macron like that. He does seem to be considered, do what's necessary - but the public don't like him and are close to voting in a Nazi. FFS, a Nazi in France, voted in??

And that's part of the problem. The Overton window has shifted so far to the left that anybody espousing what were common sense, middle of the road values from 30 or 40 years ago is labelled extreme right or a Nazi.

In this case, Marine LePenn IS a Nazi, her family are/were Nazis. But, as a very good friend of mine says, she has made the politics acceptable, talks the watered down politics, but essentially - her history is Nazi. I'm not 'labelling' her a Nazi - look at the history.

[Taipan]

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

I see Macron like that. He does seem to be considered, do what's necessary - but the public don't like him and are close to voting in a Nazi. FFS, a Nazi in France, voted in??

And that's part of the problem. The Overton window has shifted so far to the left that anybody espousing what were common sense, middle of the road values from 30 or 40 years ago is labelled extreme right or a Nazi.

The far left has hijacked politics and assumed their moral high ground. I believe people have had enough though and change is coming and we'll likely see some of the strength of this ill feeling on the 27/7 demonstrations. As always the pendulum swings too far and it'll be some time before we ever see reasoned debate again. I've never known such hate and angst in politics as I have right now...

[DefTrap]

Funny that Labour is being criticised in almost the same breath as both "Far Left" and "Watered Down Centrist". As ever, it depends on your political compass and how you're receiving your News.

[Cousin Jack]

Funny that Labour is being criticised in almost the same breath as both "Far Left" and "Watered Down Centrist". As ever, it depends on your political compass and how you're receiving your News.

And how far back you can remember. The 'good old days' might not be as good as you remember, but Governments now get involved in stuff that used to your own personal business, and all that nanny state stuff costs money.

[Saga Lout]

And how far back you can remember. The 'good old days' might not be as good as you remember, but Governments now get involved in stuff that used to your own personal business, and all that nanny state stuff costs money.

And governments aren't very good at spending money.
Sorry, that's not quite right: governments are very good at spending money, they aren't very good at spending money wisely. Think of HS2, British Leyland, the NHS, all the nationalised industries. So we should have less government and in particular, less government spending.

[irie]

Governments of the last 20 years have increasingly got involved in what used to be called "social engineering" and have lost sight of their basic national function.

Which is ensuring (which does not necessarily mean providing) clean water supply and sewerage disposal, a minimum final resort medical system, transport network, educational system, clean air, policing and justice system, credible defence system, adequate housing, etc.

Because governments have progressively taken their eye off the ball the UK now has too many people for existing infrastructure.

[DefTrap]

Yeah but what have the Romans ever done for us?

Which is ensuring (which does not necessarily mean providing) clean water supply and sewerage disposal, a minimum final resort medical system, transport network, educational system, clean air, policing and justice system, credible defence system, adequate housing, etc.

[Rockburner]

Governments of the last 20 years have increasingly got involved in what used to be called "social engineering" and have lost sight of their basic national function.

Which is ensuring (which does not necessarily mean providing) clean water supply and sewerage disposal, a minimum final resort medical system, transport network, educational system, clean air, policing and justice system, credible defence system, adequate housing, etc.

Because governments have progressively taken their eye off the ball the UK now has too many people for existing infrastructure.

Are you proposing a cull??

[MyLittleStudPony]

Governments of the last 20 years have increasingly got involved in what used to be called "social engineering" and have lost sight of their basic national function.

Which is ensuring (which does not necessarily mean providing) clean water supply and sewerage disposal, a minimum final resort medical system, transport network, educational system, clean air, policing and justice system, credible defence system, adequate housing, etc.

Because governments have progressively taken their eye off the ball the UK now has too many people for existing infrastructure.

Are you proposing a cull??

Or a sending back of the buggers?

[irie]

Governments of the last 20 years have increasingly got involved in what used to be called "social engineering" and have lost sight of their basic national function.

Which is ensuring (which does not necessarily mean providing) clean water supply and sewerage disposal, a minimum final resort medical system, transport network, educational system, clean air, policing and justice system, credible defence system, adequate housing, etc.

Because governments have progressively taken their eye off the ball the UK now has too many people for existing infrastructure.

Are you proposing a cull??

Or a sending back of the buggers?

Neither.

What other alternatives are there?

[cheb]

Emigrate, criticise the UK for anything and everything whilst ignoring the problems in the country you emigrated to?

Seems to work for most expats.

[Mr. Dazzle]

There're too many immigrants, I'm moving to another country

[Yambo]

There're too many immigrants, I'm moving to another country

Don't come here, there are far to many whinging expats already.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Governments of the last 20 years have increasingly got involved in what used to be called "social engineering" and have lost sight of their basic national function.

Which is ensuring (which does not necessarily mean providing) clean water supply and sewerage disposal, a minimum final resort medical system, transport network, educational system, clean air, policing and justice system, credible defence system, adequate housing, etc.

Because governments have progressively taken their eye off the ball the UK now has too many people for existing infrastructure.

Are you proposing a cull??

Or a sending back of the buggers?

Neither.

What other alternatives are there?

Run the country effectively. The Conservatives have failed. Looks like we're going to see what about a decade of Labour can achieve.

[irie]

Governments of the last 20 years have increasingly got involved in what used to be called "social engineering" and have lost sight of their basic national function.

Which is ensuring (which does not necessarily mean providing) clean water supply and sewerage disposal, a minimum final resort medical system, transport network, educational system, clean air, policing and justice system, credible defence system, adequate housing, etc.

Because governments have progressively taken their eye off the ball the UK now has too many people for existing infrastructure.

Are you proposing a cull??

Or a sending back of the buggers?

Neither.

What other alternatives are there?

Run the country effectively. The Conservatives have failed. Looks like we're going to see what about a decade of Labour can achieve.

Even "running the country [ultra] efficiently" will NOT address the huge imbalance between national infrastructure needs and national demand.

Infrastructure projects can require decades to be completed, exactly what do you propose to do in the meantime?

Keep immigration running at current levels? And I'm talking about legal immigration, NOT illegal immigration OK?

You have got to be kidding.

[porter_jamie]

I remember when brown was voted out they said the next government will only get one term as the austerity will be so bad no one will vote for them again for decades
Cameron won an outright majority the next election ffs. And the Tories are still there. And then when the stupid grandad was about to be in change of labour, Tory supporters were joining labour for a fiver to vote for corbyn thereby guaranteeing labour wouldn't be voted in again for a generation. And then of course Boris won a stonking majority and everyone agreed he will be in power for at least 2 terms if not more. And now it's a shoe in for labour. So it's all bullshit. People are saying labour in for a decade. Really though? Anything could happen. Starmer isn't a TV Tony Blair kinda guy but I'm hoping he will be a steady no flash hand on the tiller in a boring John major kind of way. JM was bodging Edwina though so who In the cabinet is Sir Kier most likely to bodge on the cabinet conference table? This is the kind of political intrigue that could hold my interest z the current situation is boring the tits off me.