Who Will You Vote For?

[irie]

Comedy bit is, not only are Reform's policies ridiculously un-fundable they'd be even more so if they just put a stop to all UK immigration

Let's hear your funded plan to deal with the impact of over 500,000 immigrants per year on "Housing, NHS, Water, Sewerage, Transport, Education" and other infrastructure. If not your plan, then any funded plan OK? Don't be shy.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I don't have one, which is one of the reasons I'm not standing for office. That doesn't mean Reform have a good plan

Politicians don't want to reduce migration, not really, no matter how much they say they want to. It's too useful in the short/medium term.

[irie]

Comedy bit is, not only are Reform's policies ridiculously un-fundable they'd be even more so if they just put a stop to all UK immigration

Let's hear your funded plan to deal with the impact of over 500,000 immigrants per year on "Housing, NHS, Water, Sewerage, Transport, Education" and other infrastructure. If not your plan, then any funded plan OK? Don't be shy.

I don't have one

So you don't know, but at the same time saying that it's"ridiculously un-fundable". Riiiight.

[Cousin Jack]

I don't have one, which is one of the reasons I'm not standing for office. That doesn't mean Reform have a good plan

Politicians don't want to reduce migration, not really, no matter how much they say they want to. It's too useful in the short/medium term.

Just how is an extra 500-1000 mostly unskilled immigrants per day useful? They are forbidden by law to work, they rely totally on the taxpayer to survive, and many will nor qualify for asylum and are thus destined to spend their life in the 'black' economy, aka crime.

[wheelnut]

I don't have one, which is one of the reasons I'm not standing for office. That doesn't mean Reform have a good plan

Politicians don't want to reduce migration, not really, no matter how much they say they want to. It's too useful in the short/medium term.

Just how is an extra 500-1000 mostly unskilled immigrants per day useful? They are forbidden by law to work, they rely totally on the taxpayer to survive, and many will nor qualify for asylum and are thus destined to spend their life in the 'black' economy, aka crime.

Not necessarily black, but may well be grey. An economy is a strange thing and the biggest element is the movement of money and that doesn’t change too much if the economy is on the grey side.

[Mr. Dazzle]

So you don't know, but at the same time saying that it's"ridiculously un-fundable". Riiiight.

The information on how Reform's policies are unfundable is already in this thread, more than once.

Me not having a solution to their problem doesn't make them right.

Just how is an extra 500-1000 mostly unskilled immigrants per day useful? They are forbidden by law to work, they rely totally on the taxpayer to survive, and many will nor qualify for asylum and are thus destined to spend their life in the 'black' economy, aka crime.

Most migrants are here neither illegally nor unskilled, that's how. The UK has been sucking on the teat of imported labour for far too long to just turn it off. Indeed, look how quickly the current bunch back tracked on visas for certain professions when it became obvious they're needed.

Reform even leave themselves the convenient "except where needed" caveat on their migration policy....cause they understand the truth in secret

Ironically Brexit has made it worse. People tend to come and stay now, whereas before they'd just come to work for a brief period cause that was much easier.

[Cousin Jack]

We need some skilled workers, but that is mainly because Govt policies have encouraged that, by restricting the number of training places for eg Doctors, and then importing migrants to make up the numbers. At the other end of the scale unskilled UK youth prefer benefits to hard work as farm labourers, so we import them too.

All of this is about legal immigration, my 500-1000 per day is the current rate of illegal immigration, and my question stands, how to those 500-1000 help in any way?

[irie]

@Mr. Dazzle

So still no answer to the question which was:

Let's hear your funded plan to deal with the impact of over 500,000 immigrants per year on "Housing, NHS, Water, Sewerage, Transport, Education" and other infrastructure. If not your plan, then any funded plan OK? Don't be shy.

The truth is that when immigration is faster than infrastructure is being created then there is no credible answer. And that is exactly what the UK has been experiencing in at least the last 25 years.

[Mr. Dazzle]

No, no answer.

Like I asked, how does that effect Reform's policy?

All of this is about legal immigration, my 500-1000 per day is the current rate of illegal immigration, and my question stands, how to those 500-1000 help in any way?

It's not. But notice how noone points out the number of illegal vs non Illegal when they throw numbers around eh? I don't think its 500-1000 ILLEGAL migrants a day either.

The "x million a year" is net total and no government wants to do anything about that because its needed, at least for now. Cut if off and everything gets more expensive for the next decade and hospital waiting times go up etc. Which would also probably get blamed on migrants

[Taipan]

That really is quite extraordinary! If they keep this momentum up we could see Prime Minister Farage!

A new poll by People Polling conducted for GBNews has put Reform on 24% - nine points above the Conservatives and just 11 points behind Labour.

But Matthew Goodwin, who conducted the survey, warned that pollsters 'take a single poll with a big dose of caution.'

Speaking on GB News, Prof Matthew Goodwin said: “These are historic numbers, it's difficult to know, really, what's accurate and what isn't at this stage.

“If we take a step back and look at all of the polling overall, then I think we can actually see a number of key themes coming out.

“One is the Conservative vote does seem to be imploding. The average Conservative support is down. This week it's lower than where it was at the beginning of the campaign.

“The second thing we can see is Reform are doing much better now than they were at the beginning of the election campaign and the third thing we can see is Labour holding on to these very big, impressive leads in the polling. There’s a little bit of evidence that's coming down in some polls, but they're doing well.

"The headline numbers are Labour 35%, Reform 24%. Conservatives 15%, Lib Dems, 12%.

“This is higher than the previous peak we've had for Reform with YouGov on 19. This is Reform going up to 24. Let me explain what I think is going on here.

“This is a week where we've seen the Reform manifesto released. This is a week where we've seen the leaders’ debates, and the snapshot poll suggesting people thought Nigel Farage won that debate.

“This is the week where we've seen front page coverage of Reform pretty much back to back in the national papers. And to be honest with you, if you look at all of the polling that we've had over the last week, the average Reform vote has been inching up in every poll that we've had. Every pollster, not just us, has had a record high vote shares for Reform: not this high, but they've had record highs.

“When you're dealing with polls, we take a single poll with a big dose of caution. We say, this is where we think maybe things are.

“What I think is unquestionable, is actually Nigel Farage and Reform have had a very good election campaign. And I think that is now beyond doubt.

“If these numbers are true, though, this is real history making stuff.”

[DefTrap]

If you believe their dodgy self serving poll results (and why would we because mainstream media is bollocks and lies, right?) then Reform is splitting the Conservative vote. In fptp this usually means a landslide for the frontrunner and front bench Conservative MPs going down like skittles come polling day. It gives Reform airtime though, which is what this is mainly about.

[Horse]

Most NHS staff in England are British, but around 19% are not. Around 265,000 out of 1.5 million staff reported a non-British nationality in June 2023, up from 220,000 a year earlier This amounts to nearly one in five of NHS staff with a known nationality.

House of Commons Library

The Home Office granted 350,000 'Health and Care' visas in 2023 in total, including dependants, compared to 118,000 skilled visas in other sectors. This means the share of Skilled Worker visas going to health and care roles jumped from 58% in 2022 to 75% in 2023.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/p ... ork-visas/

[Yambo]

I think the UK is well and truly fucked.

The Conservative and Unionist Party have, over the last 14 years, slowly but surely ignored/forgot/eroded their core values. The Conservatives are not and never should be a middle of the road party - middle of the road politics is what has put the UK where it is now. Middle of the road politics is not going to provide the drastic measures needed to sort out the current mess. They have nobody of vision, no-one with any leadership qualities, no consideration for the long term good of the country and have, in recent years treated Joe and Sue Bloggs (who elected them) with contempt. They are broken. Like the NHS, they need root and branch reform. They have governed over the erosion of all major British Institutions, they facilitated the UK's leaving of the EU (which some of you think was a bad idea) and have made cronyism their new main policy. It would be simply wrong to vote for a Conservative candidate even though the individual standing for election may be a reasonable choice for a constituency MP.

The Labour Party or whatever their name is nowadays have, over the last 14 years failed miserably and contemptibly as Her/His Majesty's Opposition. More concerned with trying to show (or maybe cover up) that the influence of Momentum is no longer an issue than holding the Tories to account they have filled their Front Bench with mouthy champagne socialists who try and talk a good game but have no real vision, no leadership qualities, no consideration for the long term good of the country and have treated Joe and Sue Bloggs with contempt. They are crumbling. Their move rightwards to middle of the road politics has been a failure and is never going to provide the drastic measures to sort out the current mess. At least they don't seem to have got rid of their core values of 'tax and spend' and will probably spend in all the wrong areas but a Labour government will not be able to sort out 14 years of Tory shit government even if they were given 3 or 4 terms in power (which they won't get as the price of failure will be them losing any majority at the following DE). It would be simply wrong to vote for a Labour candidate even though the individual standing for election may be a reasonable choice for a constituency MP. Sadly, Frank Field died a few weeks ago.

The Reform Party have over their short existence done one clever thing - they adopted the name Reform. I think it is quite a shock to them that they are enjoying quite a bit of popularity as I don't think that they would be, if elected, reformers. The people who are looking at Reform as a viable alternative have already shown their naivity by voting for the wankers in the two main parties. Farage talks a good game and in the current situation is purring like a contented cat getting his ego stroked. But Farage has never held a high office, never had to deal with the Civil Service to get what he wants, can spout any old shit on the basis that the best he can hope for is to create a hung parliament. Reform are simply more of the same as we've had for decades with just a different dirty raincoat covering their little penis. Could they lead to the reform of institutions that desperately need it? I very much doubt it. Talking a good game is subtly different than having to produce the goods when in office and as they are more of the same middle of the road soundbite politicians I doubt they can walk the walk. It would be simply wrong to vote for a Reform candidate even though the individual standing for election may be a reasonable choice for a constituency MP (although I doubt any have any form that that would be the case).

The rest? Meh.

I'll not be voting. I suspect I'll be in a majority with a low turnout and a hung parliament - the best thing that could happen imho. Don't forget, 'The government you elect is the government you deserve.' or “Every nation has the government it deserves”. Low turnout, shit government, long term happiness for you all.

Yeah, yeah I know. tl:dr

[Count Steer]

^^^^Yeah, yeah I know. tl:dr

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

As long as parties need to keep a majority happy to 'buy' votes....we're stuffed.
As long as parties see power as a means to stuff their own pockets...we're stuffed.
As long as parties only aim to keep one part of the electorate happy...we're stuffed.
As long as we insist that first past the post is the only workable system...we're stuffed.

The end.

[Cousin Jack]

That ^ about sums it up. UK mainstream politics is broken, new 'champions' emerge but are not credible governments. Radical change is needed, but looks very unlikely to happen. We are fcuked.

[Noggin]

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

I see Macron like that. He does seem to be considered, do what's necessary - but the public don't like him and are close to voting in a Nazi. FFS, a Nazi in France, voted in??

[Saga Lout]

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

I see Macron like that. He does seem to be considered, do what's necessary - but the public don't like him and are close to voting in a Nazi. FFS, a Nazi in France, voted in??

And that's part of the problem. The Overton window has shifted so far to the left that anybody espousing what were common sense, middle of the road values from 30 or 40 years ago is labelled extreme right or a Nazi.

[Noggin]

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

I see Macron like that. He does seem to be considered, do what's necessary - but the public don't like him and are close to voting in a Nazi. FFS, a Nazi in France, voted in??

And that's part of the problem. The Overton window has shifted so far to the left that anybody espousing what were common sense, middle of the road values from 30 or 40 years ago is labelled extreme right or a Nazi.

In this case, Marine LePenn IS a Nazi, her family are/were Nazis. But, as a very good friend of mine says, she has made the politics acceptable, talks the watered down politics, but essentially - her history is Nazi. I'm not 'labelling' her a Nazi - look at the history.

[Taipan]

Short version: any party that promised to do what needs to be done and is honest about the impact would never get elected. Any party in power that did what needs to be done would get thrown out. (What needs to be done for roads, social care etc etc will cost a lot and that means tax).

I see Macron like that. He does seem to be considered, do what's necessary - but the public don't like him and are close to voting in a Nazi. FFS, a Nazi in France, voted in??

And that's part of the problem. The Overton window has shifted so far to the left that anybody espousing what were common sense, middle of the road values from 30 or 40 years ago is labelled extreme right or a Nazi.

The far left has hijacked politics and assumed their moral high ground. I believe people have had enough though and change is coming and we'll likely see some of the strength of this ill feeling on the 27/7 demonstrations. As always the pendulum swings too far and it'll be some time before we ever see reasoned debate again. I've never known such hate and angst in politics as I have right now...

[DefTrap]

Funny that Labour is being criticised in almost the same breath as both "Far Left" and "Watered Down Centrist". As ever, it depends on your political compass and how you're receiving your News.