Election latest: Reform UK overtakes Tories for first time in new poll
Reform UK has overtaken the Tories for the first time in a new YouGov poll carried out for The Times newspaper. Sky polling analyst Will Jennings describes it as a "moment of huge danger" for the Conservative Party.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:40 pm
Man up and place your bet, then.
Brave Sir Irie...
I know you're busy goading irie but I'll put a soapy tenner on one or the other being gone next time around. Maybe Starmer will find a way to get rid of her first but I think she's after his job.
OK, the bet I was prepared to make was that Starmer would still be PM (i.e. no secret plan to install Rayner or anyone else had taken place) at the end of the next Parliament. Are you OK with that as a basis for a wager?
I'm just trying to get irie to put his money where his mouth is...
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:40 pm
Man up and place your bet, then.
Brave Sir Irie...
I know you're busy goading irie but I'll put a soapy tenner on one or the other being gone next time around. Maybe Starmer will find a way to get rid of her first but I think she's after his job.
Of course she is, backed by Momentum and fellow travellers such as Rebecca Long-Bailey.
No need to get excited, Mango's always stirring his chutney.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
Mussels wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:31 pm
I can't see Rayner becoming leader, she's a good enforcer for Momentum but she's too spiteful to be the figurehead.
One things for sure about Labour. Being unelectable was never a total hindrance to becoming leader.
It will be interesting to see how many teeth Starmer has actually drawn on the dogmatic left (and whether he can actually kick Momentum in the nuts if he gets a big majority. I think they're a bit like the Wizard of Oz though - a lot smaller than they sound).
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Mussels wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:31 pm
I can't see Rayner becoming leader, she's a good enforcer for Momentum but she's too spiteful to be the figurehead.
One things for sure about Labour. Being unelectable was never a total hindrance to becoming leader.
It will be interesting to see how many teeth Starmer has actually drawn on the dogmatic left (and whether he can actually kick Momentum in the nuts if he gets a big majority. I think they're a bit like the Wizard of Oz though - a lot smaller than they sound).
Some friends of ours are/were fervid Corbynistas and they've been totally marginalised in their local Labour branch to the point they've given up on their party membership. It seems that Starmer has been executing a very effective 'behind the scenes' purge of Momentum and Corbynites. But that doesn't sit well with the alarmist 'Reds under the bed' propaganda espoused by a few on here. Most if not all of my left-leaning friends view Starmer as a pale blue Tory and will hold their nose while voting Labour or (more likely) voting tactically to get the Tories out.
Mussels wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:31 pm
I can't see Rayner becoming leader, she's a good enforcer for Momentum but she's too spiteful to be the figurehead.
One things for sure about Labour. Being unelectable was never a total hindrance to becoming leader.
It will be interesting to see how many teeth Starmer has actually drawn on the dogmatic left (and whether he can actually kick Momentum in the nuts if he gets a big majority. I think they're a bit like the Wizard of Oz though - a lot smaller than they sound).
Some friends of ours are/were fervid Corbynistas and they've been totally marginalised in their local Labour branch to the point they've given up on their party membership. It seems that Starmer has been executing a very effective 'behind the scenes' purge of Momentum and Corbynites. But that doesn't sit well with the alarmist 'Reds under the bed' propaganda espoused by a few on here. Most if not all of my left-leaning friends view Starmer as a pale blue Tory and will hold their nose while voting Labour or (more likely) voting tactically to get the Tories out.
Despite Starmer claiming to be a socialist I think he is middle of the road, if he has driven most of the socialists out then who made him keep Abbott?
One things for sure about Labour. Being unelectable was never a total hindrance to becoming leader.
It will be interesting to see how many teeth Starmer has actually drawn on the dogmatic left (and whether he can actually kick Momentum in the nuts if he gets a big majority. I think they're a bit like the Wizard of Oz though - a lot smaller than they sound).
Some friends of ours are/were fervid Corbynistas and they've been totally marginalised in their local Labour branch to the point they've given up on their party membership. It seems that Starmer has been executing a very effective 'behind the scenes' purge of Momentum and Corbynites. But that doesn't sit well with the alarmist 'Reds under the bed' propaganda espoused by a few on here. Most if not all of my left-leaning friends view Starmer as a pale blue Tory and will hold their nose while voting Labour or (more likely) voting tactically to get the Tories out.
Despite Starmer claiming to be a socialist I think he is middle of the road, if he has driven most of the socialists out then who made him keep Abbott?
I'm not privy to that info, but I'd guess he didn't want a display of disunity and just wanted the issue to go away. She hadn't actually done enything 'wrong' but was guilty by association with Corbyn.
IFS not exactly waxing lyrical about Labours manifesto. No surprises there though...
IFS wrote:Summing up, Johnson said while there were some spending increases for health and education already promised, there was “essentially nothing new in the Conservatives’ manifesto”.
“Labour, by contrast, want to change everything. Their vision is of a state with a far greater role than anything we have seen for more than 40 years. They would tax and spend more than ever before, putting in place a new universal welfare state with free childcare, free university, free personal care, free prescriptions and more besides; they would impose a swathe of new labour market regulations.”
A Labour plan to spend £58bn compensating Waspi women (Women Against State Pension Inequality) for losses during the equalisation of the state pension at 66 years of age over the last 25 years, was described as an “extraordinary” unfunded promise.
Johnson added: “In the face of such vast ambition from Labour, one should not forget that the Liberal Democrat manifesto is itself a radical document that would involve a decisive move away from the policies of the past decade.
“Rarely can a starker choice have been placed before the UK electorate.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:40 pm
Man up and place your bet, then.
Brave Sir Irie...
I know you're busy goading irie but I'll put a soapy tenner on one or the other being gone next time around. Maybe Starmer will find a way to get rid of her first but I think she's after his job.
OK, the bet I was prepared to make was that Starmer would still be PM (i.e. no secret plan to install Rayner or anyone else had taken place) at the end of the next Parliament. Are you OK with that as a basis for a wager?
I'm just trying to get irie to put his money where his mouth is...
I'd take that bet. I'd even give you 100/1 odds, no, make it 1,000,000/1, or whatever odds you want. It's a SOAPY tenner, it's not like it's real money.
Taipan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:08 pm
IFS not exactly waxing lyrical about Labours manifesto. No surprises there though...
IFS wrote:Summing up, Johnson said while there were some spending increases for health and education already promised, there was “essentially nothing new in the Conservatives’ manifesto”.
“Labour, by contrast, want to change everything. Their vision is of a state with a far greater role than anything we have seen for more than 40 years. They would tax and spend more than ever before, putting in place a new universal welfare state with free childcare, free university, free personal care, free prescriptions and more besides; they would impose a swathe of new labour market regulations.”
A Labour plan to spend £58bn compensating Waspi women (Women Against State Pension Inequality) for losses during the equalisation of the state pension at 66 years of age over the last 25 years, was described as an “extraordinary” unfunded promise.
Johnson added: “In the face of such vast ambition from Labour, one should not forget that the Liberal Democrat manifesto is itself a radical document that would involve a decisive move away from the policies of the past decade.
“Rarely can a starker choice have been placed before the UK electorate.
I know you're busy goading irie but I'll put a soapy tenner on one or the other being gone next time around. Maybe Starmer will find a way to get rid of her first but I think she's after his job.
OK, the bet I was prepared to make was that Starmer would still be PM (i.e. no secret plan to install Rayner or anyone else had taken place) at the end of the next Parliament. Are you OK with that as a basis for a wager?
I'm just trying to get irie to put his money where his mouth is...
I'd take that bet. I'd even give you 100/1 odds, no, make it 1,000,000/1, or whatever odds you want. It's a SOAPY tenner, it's not like it's real money.
DSCF4325.JPG (713.13 KiB) Viewed 123 times
That's a real tenner. I'd even throw in the bar of soap if you won...
Taipan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:08 pm
IFS not exactly waxing lyrical about Labours manifesto. No surprises there though...
IFS wrote:Summing up, Johnson said while there were some spending increases for health and education already promised, there was “essentially nothing new in the Conservatives’ manifesto”.
“Labour, by contrast, want to change everything. Their vision is of a state with a far greater role than anything we have seen for more than 40 years. They would tax and spend more than ever before, putting in place a new universal welfare state with free childcare, free university, free personal care, free prescriptions and more besides; they would impose a swathe of new labour market regulations.”
A Labour plan to spend £58bn compensating Waspi women (Women Against State Pension Inequality) for losses during the equalisation of the state pension at 66 years of age over the last 25 years, was described as an “extraordinary” unfunded promise.
Johnson added: “In the face of such vast ambition from Labour, one should not forget that the Liberal Democrat manifesto is itself a radical document that would involve a decisive move away from the policies of the past decade.
“Rarely can a starker choice have been placed before the UK electorate.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:42 pm
That's a real tenner. I'd even throw in the bar of soap if you won...
Does the Soapy Tenner actually refer to Soap though?....I was under the impression that it did not, but you're going back a bit!
It goes back longer than I've been a member of any forum where it originated, so I just took the phrase at face value. I'd be very interested to hear of the phrase's true origins and meaning.
Taipan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:07 pm
Mr Soap on visordown.
Who never actually intended to deliver the £10. So ironically, posting a photo of an actual tenner in the context of a soapy tenner couldn't be more wrong.
Mango's out here performing semantic bleaching! Using a phrase not how it was originally intended, thus eroding it's meaning and utility.
Taipan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:07 pm
Mr Soap on visordown.
Who never actually intended to deliver the £10. So ironically, posting a photo of an actual tenner in the context of a soapy tenner couldn't be more wrong.
Mango's out here performing semantic bleaching! Using a phrase not how it was originally intended, thus eroding it's meaning and utility.
In my defence, it was done unintentionally. And at least it's preferable to anal bleaching...
