Who Will You Vote For?

[matt]

Nope not envious at all , like I said before I pay my fair share in taxes, I'm happy to do that. I just want the super rich to pay their fair share as well.
So you're wrong.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm happy to do that. I just want the super rich to pay their fair share as well.

They probably need to pay less then

Top 1% is anyone earning > about £500k BTW. Top 50% is "only" £35k.

So 1% of earners pay slightly more than a quarter of all the income tax in this country. Or...half of the population (the bottom 50%) pay only a third of what those hated rich pay.

[matt]

I'm on about tax avoidance and loop holes,not about normal people who pay it

[Count Steer]

I'm happy to do that. I just want the super rich to pay their fair share as well.

They probably need to pay less then

Top 1% is anyone earning > about £500k BTW. Top 50% is "only" £35k.

So 1% of earners pay slightly more than a quarter of all the income tax in this country. Or...half of the population (the bottom 50%) pay only a third of what those hated rich pay.

Be interesting to see that figure based on % of income that each percentile contributes rather than % contribution to the tax take.

Thing that always makes me is that (some of) that 1% also qualifies for state pension. (I know in the overall picture it doesn't amount to a hill o' beans but it's a bit odd that they can get benefits. ).

[Mr. Dazzle]

Be interesting to see that figure based on % of income that each percentile contributes rather than % contribution to the tax take.

Like this you mean?

It's actually reasonably equitable!


There are loads of benefits you could legitimately argue should be means tested (pensions and healthcare being the obvious start), but it gets to a point where it's more complicated and costly than just paying it to everyone doesn't it?

It's like how anyone employed by the government (i.e. MoD, civil service etc) still pays income tax on their salary - which was paid from tax take in the first place

[Count Steer]

Be interesting to see that figure based on % of income that each percentile contributes rather than % contribution to the tax take.

Like this you mean?

It's actually reasonably equitable!

It shows how skewed things are with the non-progressive taxes pretty clearly too.

[Mr. Dazzle]

If you want a genuinely fair picture you'd also have to add in how much each group "gets" from Tax.

Benefits obviously. But then how do you place a value on policing or financial regulation or arts development or or or or...

[Count Steer]

If you want a genuinely fair picture you'd also have to add in how much each group "gets" from Tax.

Benefits obviously. But then how do you place a value on policing or financial regulation or arts development or or or or...

Then it gets complicated. I'd say most of us benefit to some degree that people (some!) get benefits. I don't think it would be very nice living in a place where the elderly that need benefits (like Council tax reduction etc) didn't get them or that people couldn't work because they don't get £ to help pay for nursery school etc. (It's a shame that nursery schools have become essential but that's the way things have become and we're not ever going back to the way things were).

[Mr. Dazzle]

I totally agree with that.

It annoys and amuses me when people say "I never get a penny in benefits", in reality any vaguely normal UK citizen will have received tens of thousands in direct spending by the time they're an adult (being born in a hospital, school, child benefits, free eye tests etc etc...) and then will continue to reap the rewards of government spending for their whole life, even if they never step foot in a government run institution again.

You don't need to directly receive benefits to benefit from them.

[Saga Lout]

I'm on about tax avoidance and loop holes,not about normal people who pay it

Pretty much every sensible person practices tax avoidance. E.g. my wife has very little income, I have transferred 10% of her personal allowance to me, thus avoiding tax. Or is that not the tax avoidance you're referring to? It is a well established point of law that a person is not required to arrange his affairs so that he pays the maximum amount of tax.

You seem to be under the illusion that tax is a good thing, that governments can spend money more wisely than individuals, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, and therefore "the rich" should pay more tax. Well, in world terms, YOU are the rich. How much more tax do you want to pay?

[porter_jamie]

I remember when the Wallace and gromit fella was in charge of labour and he was coming out with reasonably sensible things, more.money for NHS and police and blah blah and fairness and tax the rich and I thought yeah right, fair enough. And then the clouds cleared and a beam of light shone down from the heavens and in a moment of clarity I suddenly realised, he meant me. Yeah. Get fucked.

[Mr. Dazzle]

"The squeezed middle"

[Taipan]

upload pictures to the internet

[Taipan]

I've had conversations in Italy (in English, thankfully, as my Italian isn't at political discussion level), and been told that many of them wish they could leave the EU (Italexit?). I suspect any EU country has their share of leavers/remainers.

As for the 'balls up made of it'. The EU was hellbent to make sure Brexit was as painful as possible, to make sure no other country got that idea in their head, like a bitter ex-spouse, determined to extract as much pain from the divorce as they can.

Helped massively by a set of politicians who basically sat back and said, "fuck-it - lets just see what happens cos we can't be arsed to negotiate/don't give a hsit what happens as it doesn't actually affect us or our offspring"

I'm sure there are always people that will want to leave. Same as not everyone wanted Brexit. But here, there used to be a lot of Frexit posters/signs all over the place. But none around now

Wonder if that will change now Le Pen looks like getting in?

[Mussels]

I've had conversations in Italy (in English, thankfully, as my Italian isn't at political discussion level), and been told that many of them wish they could leave the EU (Italexit?). I suspect any EU country has their share of leavers/remainers.

As for the 'balls up made of it'. The EU was hellbent to make sure Brexit was as painful as possible, to make sure no other country got that idea in their head, like a bitter ex-spouse, determined to extract as much pain from the divorce as they can.

Helped massively by a set of politicians who basically sat back and said, "fuck-it - lets just see what happens cos we can't be arsed to negotiate/don't give a hsit what happens as it doesn't actually affect us or our offspring"

I'm sure there are always people that will want to leave. Same as not everyone wanted Brexit. But here, there used to be a lot of Frexit posters/signs all over the place. But none around now

Wonder if that will change now Le Pen looks like getting in?

Now Macron has dissolved the French parliament that may well change.

[Cousin Jack]

If you want a genuinely fair picture you'd also have to add in how much each group "gets" from Tax.

Benefits obviously. But then how do you place a value on policing or financial regulation or arts development or or or or...

Per capita innit.

So the very rich, being very few, would pay very little.

[gremlin]

Currently I'm thinking of voting for the party that uses the least number of buzzwords and phrases, not least the two that I keep hearing:

Fully-costed

Hard-working families.

[Horse]

Had a whisper from a friend who 'knows stuff' that "Sunak is about to resign".

Wouldn't be surprised - with ministers turning against him he's finished.

Is there a timetable for this?

NB: "Truth does not change because it is, or is not, spread as a rumour." - Giordano Bruno (almost)

[gremlin]

Resigning is just what the Tories don't need. Wait til it's all over, he carries the can and then start again and rebuild anew.

[Mussels]

Momentum seem determined for Starmer to lose but he's doing a pretty good job himself as he's already as he's gone all in with the pro-Palestine protestors. The UK declaring Palestine as an independent state for an election whim seems rather rash.