Who Will You Vote For?

[Count Steer]

Firstly, I said nothing about "half the population", I instead said "the overwhelming majority" of the population.

Secondly, it is not about the "average voter", it is instead about the small minority who exploit the social media megaphone.

This small minority is driving government policy.

It was Potter that used the expression 'half the population' in the post I originally responded to. That was what I was referring to.

I said half because the vote was pretty evenly split, although I realise that not everyone voted. And you can sabotage something by doing nothing of use, which is what every remainer has done since the vote, and if they have had influence then they have used it to scupper negotiations.

But honestly I just can’t be arsed going into details on this forum anymore, I only posted out of boredom and waking up this morning (and seeing I’d been quoted) I wish I hadn’t because now I’m supposed to explain to a bunch of angry left wingers just so they can argue black is white for entertainment.

So 'half the population' was nonsense, 'sabotage' was nonsense and now one person asking a straight question is 'a bunch of angry left wingers'? Best to not get bored methinks.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I've had conversations in Italy (in English, thankfully, as my Italian isn't at political discussion level), and been told that many of them wish they could leave the EU (Italexit?). I suspect any EU country has their share of leavers/remainers.

As for the 'balls up made of it'. The EU was hellbent to make sure Brexit was as painful as possible, to make sure no other country got that idea in their head, like a bitter ex-spouse, determined to extract as much pain from the divorce as they can.

Not to mention half of the UK population has done everything in their power to sabotage it because it suits their politics.

It’s amazing it hasn’t been a lot worse.

Remoaners stole our Brexit!

After the pandemic and war in Ukraine did the same.

We do have all the Brexit fish though. And immigration that has been tekken back control off of.

I'm sure this will be enough to ensure the northern poor felt it went well and vote Conservative in the upcoming election.

[Count Steer]

For the avoidance of doubt. I still am not clear on how any activity (or inactivity) of remain voters has influenced in any way government policy or actions since the vote. I asked a straight question and, as usual, get a tirade about angry left wingers and accuse of being a 'dickhead'.

I'm the one trying to have a discussion.

[DefTrap]

I still don't see what (I'll take the 'half the population' as a figure of speech) any of the non-governmental population have done to impact the post-Brexit deal or post-Brexit changes ie farming/fishing subsidies etc. Even trending stuff on social media doesn't seem to have had any effect. Any 'sabotaging' seems to be purely down to governmental either a) incompetence and/or b) indecision.

I can't see what the average voter has achieved/impacted at all outside of the referendum and election scenarios. Seems odd to accuse them of sabotage.

They quite rightly pointed out all the resulting errors and mishaps that had been decried as negativity during the electioneering. All the stuff that we were told wouldn't happen and all the promises that ebbed away.

That doesn't influence anything, it's just that half the country don't like being reminded.

[Wossname]

Are we back to the “remoaners” and “beleavers” slanging match again? Gawdelpus….

[Yambo]

For the avoidance of doubt. I still am not clear on how any activity (or inactivity) of remain voters has influenced in any way government policy or actions since the vote. I asked a straight question and, as usual, get a tirade about angry left wingers and accuse of being a 'dickhead'.

I'm the one trying to have a discussion.

Activity or inactivity of Remain voters has influenced nothing. Activity or inactivity by Leave voters has influenced nothing.

You answered your own question in your 4th June post:

Any 'sabotaging' seems to be purely down to governmental either a) incompetence and/or b) indecision.

The government at the time of the vote was predominately Remain and despite Johnson saying he "got Brexit done" the government was and still is full of Remainers. I'm not convinced Johnson was ever a Leave voter but a previous leader of the Conservative Party, the coward Cameron had promised "We will act on your decision in the referendum." and Johnson was enough of a twat to say we should "get it done". Very few in government were going to allow it to be done properly.

The government and parliament, full of the worst politicians in living memory, are solely to blame.

But, they're a funny bunch Remainers. They still think that "Let's do something" is a promise made by people who were not and never would be in a position to do 'it'. Failing to understand it wasn't a promise is indicative that they will never get their head around that the government, mostly Remainers are the problem. Not social media, not MLSP keeping it nice and Brexity, not the voters. Just the government and Parliament.

[mangocrazy]

Yeah it’s nonsense mate, you’re not interested in an actual discussion and I’m not playing who’s the best dickhead with you and your mate mango.
Enjoy.

I've been deliberately staying out of this discussion/not discussion. You OK, hun?

[Count Steer]

Anyway, did anyone watch the 'head to head' on ITV last night? I didn't but most of the UK tree-wasting press seem to have watched a different version to what's reported in more balanced sources.

(It seems these events are mainly to provide talking points for the media rather than to speak to the voters. Bit of a waste of an hour?).

[mangocrazy]

Anyway, did anyone watch the 'head to head' on ITV last night?

Nope. Catching up on sleep or even doing the washing up would be preferable to that.

[Saga Lout]

For the avoidance of doubt. I still am not clear on how any activity (or inactivity) of remain voters has influenced in any way government policy or actions since the vote. I asked a straight question and, as usual, get a tirade about angry left wingers and accuse of being a 'dickhead'.

I'm the one trying to have a discussion.

Activity or inactivity of Remain voters has influenced nothing. Activity or inactivity by Leave voters has influenced nothing.

You answered your own question in your 4th June post:

Any 'sabotaging' seems to be purely down to governmental either a) incompetence and/or b) indecision.

The government at the time of the vote was predominately Remain and despite Johnson saying he "got Brexit done" the government was and still is full of Remainers. I'm not convinced Johnson was ever a Leave voter but a previous leader of the Conservative Party, the coward Cameron had promised "We will act on your decision in the referendum." and Johnson was enough of a twat to say we should "get it done". Very few in government were going to allow it to be done properly.

The government and parliament, full of the worst politicians in living memory, are solely to blame.

But, they're a funny bunch Remainers. They still think that "Let's do something" is a promise made by people who were not and never would be in a position to do 'it'. Failing to understand it wasn't a promise is indicative that they will never get their head around that the government, mostly Remainers are the problem. Not social media, not MLSP keeping it nice and Brexity, not the voters. Just the government and Parliament.

It's not just that parliament was overwhelmingly Remain, an even bigger obstacle to "Getting Brexit Done" was the (un)Civil Service which is even more overwhelmingly Remain.

Anyway, there was a bus. Why has nobody mentioned the bus?

[irie]

[JackyJoll]

It's not just that parliament was overwhelmingly Remain, an even bigger obstacle to "Getting Brexit Done" was the (un)Civil Service which is even more overwhelmingly Remain.

The very ill-advised (don’t gamble with something you’ll miss) referendum was just about eight years ago. Government is likely to have many new and young MPs. Perhaps the MPs and CS will manage to drag the agenda away from vengeance for Brexit.

[demographic]

Brexiteers, first it's the fault of the EU laws despite the amount of them that were just UK laws anyway.
Then it was all " You lost, get over it"
Then blaming remainers despite the conservative party having a huge majority and purging anyone who didn't publicly support Boris's bih blonde Brexit and remainers unable to do anything about it.
Then blaming the civil servants for the badly thought out hard brexit Boris and Frost forced through.

I can see it now, have a shite day at work, kick the cat.
Its pathetic to watch, frame yerselves.

[Noggin]

Teresa May - Decided that no deal was better than a bad deal.

Pretty sure she had a deal in place but it was voted out by both Conservatives and Labour. It was, I believe, a better option than the shit show that happened with Boris

[mangocrazy]

Teresa May's big Brexit mistake (IMHO) was saddling herself with red lines dictated by the right wing of the party; i.e. no customs union and no single market. Thar drastically limited her room for manoeuvre and appeal across party lines. The referendum question was a simple binary 'in' or 'out'. It was pressure from the Tory right (ERG) that turned it into a race to the bottom/hardest Brexit possible.

It's been largely forgotten that we could have retained access to the single market and customs union while still leaving the EU.

[Noggin]

Teresa May's big Brexit mistake (IMHO) was saddling herself with red lines dictated by the right wing of the party; i.e. no customs union and no single market. Thar drastically limited her room for manoeuvre and appeal across party lines. The referendum question was a simple binary 'in' or 'out'. It was pressure from the Tory right (ERG) that turned it into a race to the bottom/hardest Brexit possible.

It's been largely forgotten that we could have retained access to the single market and customs union while still leaving the EU.

This is one of the bits I REALLY do NOT understand us losing. But that will be the Tories trying to please the right, no? (I'm not good at politics, I get very angry and frustrated at the shit show - and am sure that will eventually happen here as I'll have to learn about it for nationality - but don't have brain space to try and work out why it's a shit show!!)

[Lutin]

It's been largely forgotten that we could have retained access to the single market and customs union while still leaving the EU.

However, this is dependant on retaining the free movement of people.

Which the racists and hard of thinking will NOT allow to happen.

Shame really as a lot of hassle would simply vanish into thin air.

Common sense, eh? Where did it go?

[mangocrazy]

I'd just like to state that I have absolutely no desire to open old wounds and restart the Leave/Remain debate. I only wanted to make the point that Teresa May had all options open to her but decided to rule out out a large swathe of them, thereby severely limiting her scope for finding a solution that was broadly acceptable.

[Cousin Jack]

It's been largely forgotten that we could have retained access to the single market and customs union while still leaving the EU.

However, this is dependant on retaining the free movement of people.

Which the racists and hard of thinking will NOT allow to happen.

Shame really as a lot of hassle would simply vanish into thin air.

Common sense, eh? Where did it go?

Common sense disappeared when they allowed large swathes of eastern Europe to join without setting economic criteria for membership.

[Hot_Air]

Let’s set aside Brexit as it’s done. We left the EU four years ago.

However, the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) is worth debating because it’s due for review next year. The current TCA needs a revamp because it has turned the UK into a rule-taker in all manner of things. We accept EU certification in the UK for everything from medicines to aeroplane pilot licences. But it’s one-way. The EU doesn't accept UK certification.