Pension stuff, how's it all looking ? HAve you prepared ?

[JackyJoll]

Well unless the pension collapses, I know some people in Carillion who had massive pensions and I think they lost loads.

I left the atomic privatisation triumph that was AEAT PLC in 2001.

Their pension scheme collapsed in 2012. It was rescued by a Govt scheme for such things, but everyone’s pension was reduced and some people ended up with most of their income not index-linked.

Just happened across an article about this. It's doubly galling that the Pension Protection Fund doesn't pay out in full because it was the Government that sold/privatised AEAT (£224M) while promising "pension rights will be fully protected". AEAT goes bust within 4 years and is sold (without the pension liability) to Ricardo. Pension fund ends up with PPF.

So, government doesn't meet the promises it makes and leaves a pension fund with a £75M shortfall in the interest of making a quick buck in 1996. The National Audit Office were less than complimentary earlier this year. They do say staff received "incomplete information from government" which seems a polite way of saying "lied through their teeth".

Needs a TV series starring Toby Jones.

There are more spectacular cases out there, to make documentaries about, such as the con-men descending on steel towns to talk people out of their pension.

[weeksy]

I'm not sure how all this works, but in the last 4 months mine has gone up be nearly £40,000. Whatever plan i'm on, i'll stick with it.

[ZRX61]

My pittance just lost over half the gains of the past 6 months.

[Count Steer]

I left the atomic privatisation triumph that was AEAT PLC in 2001.

Their pension scheme collapsed in 2012. It was rescued by a Govt scheme for such things, but everyone’s pension was reduced and some people ended up with most of their income not index-linked.

Just happened across an article about this. It's doubly galling that the Pension Protection Fund doesn't pay out in full because it was the Government that sold/privatised AEAT (£224M) while promising "pension rights will be fully protected". AEAT goes bust within 4 years and is sold (without the pension liability) to Ricardo. Pension fund ends up with PPF.

So, government doesn't meet the promises it makes and leaves a pension fund with a £75M shortfall in the interest of making a quick buck in 1996. The National Audit Office were less than complimentary earlier this year. They do say staff received "incomplete information from government" which seems a polite way of saying "lied through their teeth".

Needs a TV series starring Toby Jones.

There are more spectacular cases out there, to make documentaries about, such as the con-men descending on steel towns to talk people out of their pension.

That was pretty despicable. Dunno what you can do about it apart from lock down the scheme for a cooling off period and use the time to wise people up.

(I know some people that transferred out of a gold-plated final salary scheme but most were just greedy and keen to believe the salesmen. One of them even bragged about it and called the rest of us muppets. I think he ended up going through the 'I was missold a pension' route to seek redress. The AEAT staff were encouraged/reassured by their own Government to transfer! - which is a bit different).

The article says 90% of the pension members agreed to transfer to the private pension following assurances from the Government. I wondered what the other 10% did?

[Cousin Jack]

I contracted with Worldcom for a while. Permanent staff had a pension scheme based on the US 401(k) model, each year the company gave you X shares in your pension pot. At one stage Worldcom shares rose to about £60 each, and several people I knew had well over a £M in their pots.

Then, in not much more than 24 hours, shares were worth about 1p.

My Monarch pension went pop, but was already being paid, so the PPF picked up the tab. More worrying is BT, with at one stage the biggest pension deficit in Europe. We have "Crown guarantee", which is supposed to be cast iron, copper bottomed and gold plated. I am not sure I trust any government, and it dwarfs the PPF. If that does go down the pan I am in the shit.

[Taipan]

I remember Maxwell and the Mirror workers pension. I thought that was a one off!

[gremlin]

They issued 'policies' with contractually guaranteed, unsustainable returns/benefits if certain market conditions pertained, which they did. The cost of meeting their obligations drained them of £.

In effect, a Final Salary Pension. Can you see why virtually every company has ditched their schemes, mine included?

I say 'ditched', it was closed to newcomers years back and frozen for us old 'uns some years after that. Still goes up in terms of inflation and shit, and off-set by a bloody good DC scheme that chucks in c. 25% of my salary by way of an apology. I can and do make AVCs now that the LFA has been scrapped.
Generous of my employer, but from their point of view, a DC scheme is limited in terms of cost to what they give you. My old boss was one of the trustees of the old DB scheme and he used to tell me of the calls that were being made to make up shortfalls of the scheme. Tens of millions, and potentially unlimited. I'm surprised that didn't close it earlier, or at least try to bump off a few of the pensioners in the scheme....

[JackyJoll]

The article says 90% of the pension members agreed to transfer to the private pension following assurances from the Government. I wondered what the other 10% did?. The AEAT staff were encouraged/reassured by their own Government to transfer! - which is a bit different).

AEAT was privatised in 1996, partly as a way round Cecil Parkinson’s command that UKAEA should reduce its workforce and no doubt also as a way for some spivs to get rich.

This is from my unreliable memory- Shortly after the launch, we were offered a super duper chance to leave the old fuddy-duddy pension scheme and join the new Open (I think it was called) pension. The Open scheme was recommended as much better because it was linked to the market or something, so the sky’s the limit.

We got free shares at launch. They couldn’t be sold for two years, by which time they were worth nothing.

Bosses got shares which they could sell immediately after launch, when the price rose.

[Count Steer]

More worrying is BT, with at one stage the biggest pension deficit in Europe. We have "Crown guarantee", which is supposed to be cast iron, copper bottomed and gold plated. I am not sure I trust any government, and it dwarfs the PPF. If that does go down the pan I am in the shit.

Some of the numbers are just For example,

'The deficit in the NHS pension scheme has, according to the government actuary's department, shrunk from £841 billion as at March 31, 2022 to £461 billion just a year later.'

£841 billion was the deficit! Yumpin Yiminy! (That one's 'guaranteed' by the Government/taxpayer too).

[Horse]

Some of the numbers are just For example,

'The deficit in the NHS pension scheme has, according to the government actuary's department, shrunk from £841 billion as at March 31, 2022 to £461 billion just a year later.'

£841 billion was the deficit! Yumpin Yiminy! (That one's 'guaranteed' by the Government/taxpayer too).

Student loans, much of which will eventually be written off (ie 'paid by the taxpayers') is a good one.

Currently £20 billion per year is loaned to around 1.5 million higher education students in England each year. The value of outstanding loans at the end of March 2023 reached £206 billion. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans to reach around £460 billion (2021-22 prices) by the mid-2040s.

1 Dec 2023

[Horse]

Whoopee! I'm getting another pension pot!

Retired last year, but am doing a few hours for my ['old'] employer.

They've signed me up (legal obligation, I guess) to the pension scheme.

Good thing is that I'll effectively get 'paid' more. Downside is that, in pension terms, it'll be half of buggerall.

Still, better than a kick in the teeth

[Mr. Dazzle]

Some of the numbers are just For example,

'The deficit in the NHS pension scheme has, according to the government actuary's department, shrunk from £841 billion as at March 31, 2022 to £461 billion just a year later.'

£841 billion was the deficit! Yumpin Yiminy! (That one's 'guaranteed' by the Government/taxpayer too).

Student loans, much of which will eventually be written off (ie 'paid by the taxpayers') is a good one.

Currently £20 billion per year is loaned to around 1.5 million higher education students in England each year. The value of outstanding loans at the end of March 2023 reached £206 billion. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans to reach around £460 billion (2021-22 prices) by the mid-2040s.

1 Dec 2023

Most of the grads at work just massively up their pension VCs.

Student loans payments are taken out at the same time as tax, but if you have a salary sacrifice pension (like we do, lots of places do) pension payments come out of before tax/student loans are calculated.

Thus they just put loads into their pension to reduce their SL liability. They don't see the money right now, they'll only get it back when they retire, but if you pay it towards your SL you'll never see it again (or rather, you'll not pay back the money you've already seen).

Can't say I blame em! Obviously that was never the intent of the SL scheme, but....

[Yorick]

We have an amazing villa which we've chucked money at to make our dream house. Neighbour who is an estate agent says it's doubled in value since we bought it due to the improvements.

We didn't care as it's going to her kin and my nephew half and half.

But just seeing lots of stuff about equity release stuff. Even if we only get 60% of the value, that's a shitload extra to spend

I'm still a Yorkshire man, so won't be splashing out too much.

My nephew is a lieutenant in the Navy so won't be skint and getting shitloads from his dad any, so I've no guilt changing the plans.

Need a magic spell to delete my natural Yorkshireness

[Cousin Jack]

Need a magic spell to delete my natural Yorkshireness

I can sell you one of those.

£5 for the cheap one - but it only last 24 hours.
£100 for an annual one.
or £5k for the lifetime one, with a guarantee.

[Yorick]

Need a magic spell to delete my natural Yorkshireness

I can sell you one of those.

£5 for the cheap one - but it only last 24 hours.
£100 for an annual one.
or £5k for the lifetime one, with a guarantee.

Gimme, Gimme, Gimme

[Cousin Jack]

Need a magic spell to delete my natural Yorkshireness

I can sell you one of those.

£5 for the cheap one - but it only last 24 hours.
£100 for an annual one.
or £5k for the lifetime one, with a guarantee.

Gimme, Gimme, Gimme

Gimme £5k first. Your Yorkshireness will be cancelled for wasting your money.

[Yorick]

I can sell you one of those.

£5 for the cheap one - but it only last 24 hours.
£100 for an annual one.
or £5k for the lifetime one, with a guarantee.

Gimme, Gimme, Gimme

Gimme £5k first. Your Yorkshireness will be cancelled for wasting your money.

Can I pay in weekly installments over 50 years?

[Cousin Jack]

Gimme, Gimme, Gimme

Gimme £5k first. Your Yorkshireness will be cancelled for wasting your money.

Can I pay in weekly installments over 50 years?

Of course you can, the price is a bit higher though.

£10 pw, with an initial deposit of £50.

[Yorick]

Gimme £5k first. Your Yorkshireness will be cancelled for wasting your money.

Can I pay in weekly installments over 50 years?

Of course you can, the price is a bit higher though.

£10 pw, with an initial deposit of £50.

I'll send a cheque in the post.

[Taipan]

We have an amazing villa which we've chucked money at to make our dream house. Neighbour who is an estate agent says it's doubled in value since we bought it due to the improvements.

We didn't care as it's going to her kin and my nephew half and half.

But just seeing lots of stuff about equity release stuff. Even if we only get 60% of the value, that's a shitload extra to spend

I'm still a Yorkshire man, so won't be splashing out too much.

My nephew is a lieutenant in the Navy so won't be skint and getting shitloads from his dad any, so I've no guilt changing the plans.

Need a magic spell to delete my natural Yorkshireness

Equity release can be very iffy. Make sure you have a Solicitor who is well versed in its contracts and clauses...