A cautionary tale

[iansoady]

As some of you will know, I had the Tri-Greeves and the XBR500 stolen a couple of weeks ago. I have to say that the brokers, RH were very efficient and the underwriters paid up the agreed values (less £50 excess for each) this week. So far so good.

However, when I tried to add the 2 new bikes (BSA/Suzuki and Yamaha SRV250) to the policy I was told that the underwriters (ERS) wouldn't accept them. Not only that but they wouldn't renew the policy for the Norton, which is due for renewal in a couple of weeks!

On enquiring further I discovered that as 2 bikes had been stolen they were treating it as 2 separate claims - I did wonder why I'd had to fill in 2 virtually identical forms - so that meant I had 2 claims in the last year and they wouldn't accept the risk. The people at RH were very helpful and pleaded my case but to no avail.

The whole system is completely illogical. If I'd had one bike worth £50,000 stolen they would have had no problem. Imagine if I had a stable of a dozen low-priced machines which all went? I'd probably never get insured again.

I don't know if this is common practice but in my opinion it stinks. I've emailed ERS's CEO with my comments but I don't expect a positive response.

I have managed to get similar cover from the broker I've used in the past - Peter James - but at an annual premium of £325 rather than the less than £100 I'd been paying.

[Rockburner]

Yep - insurance will stiff you coming AND going.

I'd agree that it's one "incident", especially if both bikes were on one policy (sounds like they were?), and this is one of those scenarios where the underwriters should treat it as such, but... see rule 1.

[Skub]

At a time when you need the buggers,instead of helping,it would appear they do their very best not to fulfil their obligations.

[Bustaspoke]

I'm afraid insurer's bring out the cynic in me,good luck getting things sorted

[MyLittleStudPony]

I think they're in the whole thing to make money.

Since comparison sites drove premiums down they've looked for more creative ways to fuck people in the arse.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I think they're in the whole thing to make money.

Why else would they do it?

[Yorick]

They show you the rules. They follow the rules. They paid you fairly.

If you don't like their quote, you can go somewhere else.

All quite simple really.

[Count Steer]

Yep - insurance will stiff you coming AND going.

I'd agree that it's one "incident", especially if both bikes were on one policy (sounds like they were?), and this is one of those scenarios where the underwriters should treat it as such, but... see rule 1.

I bet there's only one incident report provided by the Old Bill.

Seems like sharp practice to me if they were on one policy.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I think they're in the whole thing to make money.

Why else would they do it?

I in no way suggested or implied there would be any other reason.


I am sympathetic towards the OP. Not the news one would hope for after going through all that grief. And it was a thoughtful act to let others know it counted as two claims. I wasn't aware that would be the case.

[Sadlonelygit]

ERS are the biggest bunch of robbing cnuts I've ever had the mispleasure of dealing with.
Total loss on a 3 week old bike took 5 months to sort out.
Had a storm damage claim on my moho a couple of years ago which only got resolved after I threatened legal action.

[ZRX61]

I just got the renewal for the ZX11, ZRX11 & F350: $758. I know the F350 part is $278/year which means the two bikes are $480, last year they were $396.. so pretty much a 25% increase. Will be calling them on Monday to ask WTF they're thinking...

[Cousin Jack]

Insurance industry needs massive shake up. Insurance law is based on 'uber fideles' (sp?), meaning that we have to tell them anything a prudent insurer would want to know, even if they don't ask. As a start that utmost good faith needs to work BOTH ways, and they need to stop burying stuff in the small print, and then denying your claim later. I only found out at the last minute that the insurance I was going to buy for a trip specifically EXCLUDED motorcycles over 150cc, this little gem was burried on Page 48 of 54 of the conditions.
l
They also need to sort out the massive delays they insert whenever they have to pay you, they are quick enough to demand premiums but somehow claims take months, even very simple ones.

The 3rd thing that needs sorting is the nasty incestuous relationship that exists between insurance companies and garages/car hire companies/claims management companies/tame builders/etc. All designed to keep your money where they can see it, with a nice little earner back to them whilst justifying sky high premiums.

[Rockburner]

Insurance industry needs massive shake up. Insurance law is based on 'uber fideles' (sp?), meaning that we have to tell them anything a prudent insurer would want to know, even if they don't ask. As a start that utmost good faith needs to work BOTH ways, and they need to stop burying stuff in the small print, and then denying your claim later. I only found out at the last minute that the insurance I was going to buy for a trip specifically EXCLUDED motorcycles over 150cc, this little gem was burried on Page 48 of 54 of the conditions.
l
They also need to sort out the massive delays they insert whenever they have to pay you, they are quick enough to demand premiums but somehow claims take months, even very simple ones.

The 3rd thing that needs sorting is the nasty incestuous relationship that exists between insurance companies and garages/car hire companies/claims management companies/tame builders/etc. All designed to keep your money where they can see it, with a nice little earner back to them whilst justifying sky high premiums.

Welcome to late-stage capitalism.

[Dickyboy]

I only found out at the last minute that the insurance I was going to buy for a trip specifically EXCLUDED motorcycles over 150cc, this little gem was buried on Page 48 of 54 of the conditions.

Yeah, I'd never even thought about it before, been on a fair few trips into Europe & was considering riding a mates bike in Malaysia but couldn't find travel insurance for over 125cc bikes

[Supermofo]

The 3rd thing that needs sorting is the nasty incestuous relationship that exists between insurance companies and garages/car hire companies/claims management companies/tame builders/etc. All designed to keep your money where they can see it, with a nice little earner back to them whilst justifying sky high premiums.

Yup and under the wheeze of it all being 'claims culture' by greedy lawyers the insurers got their mates in government to up the small claims limit and introduced fixed costs into higher value cases and work place accidents. At the time the insurers went public saying this would save 10's of % off of premiums..... And what's happened since

What this actually means is that for the majority of RTA's it'll be the individual vs the insurer. Cos that'll not be fixed against the individual

The fact that insurers themselves are the reason the claims went up for exactly the reasons you quote was completely overlooked. All the while normal people get priced out of justice.

[Skub]

@iansoady Is it worthwhile taking the sorry tale to the media and insurance ombudsman?

Nothing to lose at this stage.

[iansoady]

I have considered the ombudsman but its mills will grind very slowly.

[Scootabout]

ISTR from years ago that there's a thing under English contract law called 'rules of construction'. IIRC this means that if there's ambiguity in the wording of a contract the meaning taken is that which favours the party that didn't draft it. Whether you can make something of that in this case I don't know, but maybe worth a try?

[Noggin]

I have considered the ombudsman but its mills will grind very slowly.

It’s a total pain because it will take so long, but I reckon it will be worth a try? To reduce it to one claim has to be good and maybe it will mean that companies have to be much clearer

[mangocrazy]

The only time I involved the Ombudsman in an insurance wrangle was over 25 years ago, but I did get a substantially improved payout as a result. I think the payout increased from a lowball offer of £700 for a total loss to £1200. This was for an old Transit van that had been stolen and recovered but with the engine cut out with an oxy-acetylene torch...