Contractor to permanent job... how much?

[Slenver]

Here's an interesting conundrum.

Let's say you're working as a contractor for a small company and they offer you a permanent job. But ask that you come up with a figure for salary to start negotiations.

What would you ask for? For a bit more detail, they did negotiate down the original requested daily rate, so I've already dropped down a bit, but at the same time you have to consider full-time benefits and their value.

They suggested I start with 'an equivalent' amount and lower that a bit to compensate.

It's a small company and I don't want to look like a cunt... but then it's a negotiation, right?

[Slenver]

Starting model is 225 x daily rate, dropped down by a few % to a round figure.

225 being annual week days, -8 bank holidays, -25 days holiday, -2 sick days, which a friend at a very large company just told me was their working model.

[KungFooBob]

Why can't they make you an offer, they must have a budget for the role?

[weeksy]

I'd ask for £80k, Potter may ask £150k, others may ask £30k, it all depends really.

[Horse]

Will they be providing extras such as pension, training, IT, materials ... that you would otherwise cover?

And, presumably, you won't have to faff with tax returns either.

Is there any loss of time flexibility, etc, to consider?

[Slenver]

Why can't they make you an offer, they must have a budget for the role?

Yeah, I did ask but they refused. And role is not planned/existing, I'm just too irresistible as a contractor

[KungFooBob]

They must have something in mind, it sounds like they're putting the ball in your court in the hope you undersell yourself?

[Slenver]

Will they be providing extras such as pension, training, IT, materials ... that you would otherwise cover?

And, presumably, you won't have to faff with tax returns either.

Is there any loss of time flexibility, etc, to consider?

I assume so, but don't know any details. Pension is the only important one really, I'll have to use inferior laptop etc.

Tax returns etc aren't a problem. I'll actually lose out further tbh as I'm VAT registered to get to buy shiny equipment currently and claim that back.

[Slenver]

They must have something in mind, it sounds like they're putting the ball in your court in the hope you undersell yourself?

Yeah, maybe.

[Count Steer]

Apart from the leave, sick etc what's the value of the other benefits (to you)? Pension contributions, NI etc.

Will they commit to x days training pa (if appropriate)?

It's a while ago now but, for example, I budgeted projects at £80k pa for both permie and contract techies in some roles. The top line for the permies was way less, not just a few % The man-days pa available to projects was lower than 225 for permies too because of training, more than 2 days average sickness etc.

(We were also aware that contractors were often 2-4 weeks 'fallow' between placements and the agency took their slice out of the £80k).

[Taipan]

I'd be interested in the benefits package as well as salary, especially if I had kids. I'd want to know about death in service benefits, pensions etc. A wage has only ever been part of what i went to work for, albeit the larger part.

[Horse]

This is slightly different, so I'd benchmark similar roles (or the same roles if they exist) and ask for the top end of that band.

Worst case is they say no, you carry on paying you as a subbie. They obviously value your output and anticipate a long workstream.

That said, if you take a perm post and they change their minds at then of a probationary period, no guaranteed (or govt if they go bust) redundancy. So perhaps negotiate a golden goodbye within a certain time? Albeit if they go bust they couldn't pay it anyway.

[Slenver]

Worst case is they say no, you carry on paying you as a subbie.

Or just come back with a lower figure...

[Yorick]

After I'd agreed a figure they were happy with, I aways said " and a car of course and BUPA"

[Taipan]

After I'd agreed a figure they were happy with, I aways said " and a car of course and BUPA"

Oooh, an obliging addendum, sneaky, real sneaky!

[Horse]

Worst case is they say no, you carry on paying you as a subbie.

Or just come back with a lower figure...

Have they said 'no more subbie'? So it's agree a figure or 'bye'?

[Buckaroo]

When I used to do this as part of my job I would look at total comp package: salary, paid leave, sickness benefits, pension and bonuses.

In general, a professional employee package would be salary at market rate plus 40% as a cost to the business. We had salary bands in tertials and would typically start mid point of mid tertial for an average experience employee, lower for less experience.

I assume that you're very experienced, so some where upper tertial.

Try to do a search for similar roles.

[KungFooBob]

[MyLittleStudPony]

I'd ask for £80k, Potter may ask £150k, others may ask £30k, it all depends really.

I'd demand 1000 guineas an hour and full insurance on all boys damaged.


FWIW back in my journo days, a freelance day rate was three times the pro rata salaried rate, which nominally accounted for NI, sick pay and other benefits as well as (crucially perhaps) the risk.

[dern]

Push it back on to the lazy bastards to define a role and a salary that they're happy with and negotiate from there. It's on them, not for you to worry about, they want you.