Israel's war with Hamas (and other Iran proxies)

[Buckaroo]

The intent of Israel to destroy Palestine as a nation has been clear to see for anyone with working eyes, ears and brain for years. Apologists for the state of Israel should be ashamed of themselves.

Still supported by one of largest, if not the largest, coloniser.

Not sure of the numbers involved but native Americans, both North and South, took a systematic clobbering with the tacit support of most of Europe. Either through military action, land grabbing or the introduction of disease, or all three.

No wonder that it seemed ok to hand over a massive part of Palestine after the war.

Just so happens that support is coming from the opposite direction across the Atlantic ocean where the biggest and most culpable supporter resides.

Now that JB can see the damage caused at the polls, he's changing tac.

Sad that it takes the opinion of the electorate to force what should be an act of humanity.

P.S. I'm in no way condoning what Hamas did to the Israeli people.

[mangocrazy]

P.S. I'm in no way condoning what Hamas did to the Israeli people.

Absolutely agree, but it pales into insignificance compared to the vengeance visited by Israel on Palestine. And that must surely have been years in the planning.

[irie]

P.S. I'm in no way condoning what Hamas did to the Israeli people.

Absolutely agree, but it pales into insignificance compared to the vengeance visited by Israel on Palestine. And that must surely have been years in the planning.

Are you saying that if Hamas had not attacked Israel and had not killed and kidnapped Israeli citizens, then Israel would still have taken military action in Gaza?

[mangocrazy]

P.S. I'm in no way condoning what Hamas did to the Israeli people.

Absolutely agree, but it pales into insignificance compared to the vengeance visited by Israel on Palestine. And that must surely have been years in the planning.

Are you saying that if Hamas had not attacked Israel and had not killed and kidnapped Israeli citizens, then Israel would still have taken military action in Gaza?

I'd say that Israel were spoiling for a fight and Hamas played right into their hands. Make life so intolerable for the oppressed that they do something completely against their own best interests. Then you have the perfect pretext for genocide.

[Cousin Jack]

Absolutely agree, but it pales into insignificance compared to the vengeance visited by Israel on Palestine. And that must surely have been years in the planning.

Are you saying that if Hamas had not attacked Israel and had not killed and kidnapped Israeli citizens, then Israel would still have taken military action in Gaza?

I'd say that Israel were spoiling for a fight and Hamas played right into their hands. Make life so intolerable for the oppressed that they do something completely against their own best interests. Then you have the perfect pretext for genocide.

Probably unexpected though. The Israeli 'settlers' in the West Bank have been pushing hard for a long time, and Israel was probably expecting the backlash from there. Never mind, any backlash is a pretext for another military adventure for the hard line Zionists.

[irie]

Absolutely agree, but it pales into insignificance compared to the vengeance visited by Israel on Palestine. And that must surely have been years in the planning.

Are you saying that if Hamas had not attacked Israel and had not killed and kidnapped Israeli citizens, then Israel would still have taken military action in Gaza?

I'd say that Israel were spoiling for a fight and Hamas played right into their hands.

The context is that Israel believes it has the right to exist but Hamas et al. do not accept this.

Every time Hamas launched an attack on what it regarded as illegal settlements Israel regarded this as provocation and responded by creating new settlements, perhaps as a 'buffer zone'.

It seems to me that Hamas did not expect the Israeli response in spite of the widely known Israeli policy of always trying to recover hostages whatever the cost.

The proposition that Hamas miscalculated is supported by Iran's and Hezbollah’s lukewarm support for Hamas.

My guess is that if Hamas had not taken the hostages then Israel would not have entered Gaza, the Hamas stronghold with its 300+miles of tunnels mainly (I think) constructed since 2007. Essentially, Hamas has militarised Gaza.

Where now? Who knows ...

[mangocrazy]

Are you saying that if Hamas had not attacked Israel and had not killed and kidnapped Israeli citizens, then Israel would still have taken military action in Gaza?

I'd say that Israel were spoiling for a fight and Hamas played right into their hands.

The context is that Israel believes it has the right to exist but Hamas et al. do not accept this.

Every time Hamas launched an attack on what it regarded as illegal settlements Israel regarded this as provocation and responded by creating new settlements, perhaps as a 'buffer zone'.

It seems to me that Hamas did not expect the Israeli response in spite of the widely known Israeli policy of always trying to recover hostages whatever the cost.

The proposition that Hamas miscalculated is supported by Iran's and Hezbollah’s lukewarm support for Hamas.

My guess is that if Hamas had not taken the hostages then Israel would not have entered Gaza, the Hamas stronghold with its 300+miles of tunnels mainly (I think) constructed since 2007. Essentially, Hamas has militarised Gaza.

Where now? Who knows ...

An immediate ceasefire, followed by Netanyahu and his cronies appearing before an International court of law. Israel are becoming increasingly isolated and may soon find themselves in the same pariah state status as apartheid South Africa. They deserve that, and more.

[irie]

I'd say that Israel were spoiling for a fight and Hamas played right into their hands.

The context is that Israel believes it has the right to exist but Hamas et al. do not accept this.

Every time Hamas launched an attack on what it regarded as illegal settlements Israel regarded this as provocation and responded by creating new settlements, perhaps as a 'buffer zone'.

It seems to me that Hamas did not expect the Israeli response in spite of the widely known Israeli policy of always trying to recover hostages whatever the cost.

The proposition that Hamas miscalculated is supported by Iran's and Hezbollah’s lukewarm support for Hamas.

My guess is that if Hamas had not taken the hostages then Israel would not have entered Gaza, the Hamas stronghold with its 300+miles of tunnels mainly (I think) constructed since 2007. Essentially, Hamas has militarised Gaza.

Where now? Who knows ...

An immediate ceasefire, followed by Netanyahu and his cronies appearing before an International court of law. Israel are becoming increasingly isolated and may soon find themselves in the same pariah state status as apartheid South Africa. They deserve that, and more.

What about the remaining hostages being held by Hamas?

[mangocrazy]

The context is that Israel believes it has the right to exist but Hamas et al. do not accept this.

Every time Hamas launched an attack on what it regarded as illegal settlements Israel regarded this as provocation and responded by creating new settlements, perhaps as a 'buffer zone'.

It seems to me that Hamas did not expect the Israeli response in spite of the widely known Israeli policy of always trying to recover hostages whatever the cost.

The proposition that Hamas miscalculated is supported by Iran's and Hezbollah’s lukewarm support for Hamas.

My guess is that if Hamas had not taken the hostages then Israel would not have entered Gaza, the Hamas stronghold with its 300+miles of tunnels mainly (I think) constructed since 2007. Essentially, Hamas has militarised Gaza.

Where now? Who knows ...

An immediate ceasefire, followed by Netanyahu and his cronies appearing before an International court of law. Israel are becoming increasingly isolated and may soon find themselves in the same pariah state status as apartheid South Africa. They deserve that, and more.

What about the remaining hostages being held by Hamas?

What about them? Israel is losing control of the narrative and losing badly in the court of public opinion. They will be forced to the negotiating/ceasefire table, hostages or no hostages.

[irie]

An immediate ceasefire, followed by Netanyahu and his cronies appearing before an International court of law. Israel are becoming increasingly isolated and may soon find themselves in the same pariah state status as apartheid South Africa. They deserve that, and more.

What about the remaining hostages being held by Hamas?

What about them? Israel is losing control of the narrative and losing badly in the court of public opinion. They will be forced to the negotiating/ceasefire table, hostages or no hostages.

Well that's alright then.

[mangocrazy]

What about the remaining hostages being held by Hamas?

What about them? Israel is losing control of the narrative and losing badly in the court of public opinion. They will be forced to the negotiating/ceasefire table, hostages or no hostages.

Well that's alright then.

And you can stand by and watch the slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians, see hospitals and apartment blocks blasted to smithereens and say 'Well that's alright then' ?

Your moral compass is so far out of whack it really is beyond worrying.

[mangocrazy]

The thought occurs to me that you might have 'skin in the game', @irie . Do you have Jewish antecedents? It's the only way I can explain your stance.

[demographic]

The thought occurs to me that you might have 'skin in the game', @irie . Do you have Jewish antecedents? It's the only way I can explain your stance.

I do, think it was my great grandfather who was called Abraham Bloomer.
Still doesnt give the Zionists the right to murder 50,000 (30,000 confirmed and about another 20,000 burried in the rubble) people after subjecting them to apartied for decades.

What Hamas did was inexcusable, but Israel has been stealing their land, taking child hostages, killing farmers and generally being as bad as the white settlers in South Africa for decades.

It's not new, if people think it is their very slow learners.

Its a genocide, and we're arming it.

[irie]

The thought occurs to me that you might have 'skin in the game', @irie . Do you have Jewish antecedents? It's the only way I can explain your stance.

Well that's a pretty nauseating attempt at trying to dismiss the logic of what I was saying by implying racial or other bias.

Replying either to the positive or to the negative to your post will implicitly validate your particularly unpleasant question, therefore I will not respond to it.

If you disagree with my stance then instead try arguing against it.

[demographic]

So it seems that the propaganda spouted just after Oct the 7th was partly made up...

[JackyJoll]

hostages or no hostages.

Yeah who cares about them!

[mangocrazy]

The thought occurs to me that you might have 'skin in the game', @irie . Do you have Jewish antecedents? It's the only way I can explain your stance.

Well that's a pretty nauseating attempt at trying to dismiss the logic of what I was saying by implying racial or other bias.

Replying either to the positive or to the negative to your post will implicitly validate your particularly unpleasant question, therefore I will not respond to it.

If you disagree with my stance then instead try arguing against it.

I've already done that, at great length. Your confected righteous indignation leads me to believe I may have touched a nerve.

[mangocrazy]

hostages or no hostages.

Yeah who cares about them!

Top marks for cherry picking a quote and then taking it the opposite way to which it was intended. My point was, whether Hamas releases the hostages or not, Israel will be forced to negotiate a ceasefire.

[demographic]

Here's some nice Israeli settlers having an unfiltered conversation about their techniques.


Somewhere I've seen second world war deathcamp survivors who are disgusted by the genocide being perpetrated on the Palestinians.
I'll have a ratch for it.

[JackyJoll]

Israel will be forced to negotiate a ceasefire.

Both sides will, unless anyone thinks this will go on forever.