Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Mr. Dazzle]

The article quoted earlier about East Midlands suggested they replace ambulances on a 5 year time scale anyway. So you'd also be spending hundreds of millions on ICE ones.

[Horse]

The article quoted earlier about East Midlands suggested they replace ambulances on a 5 year time scale anyway. So you'd also be spending hundreds of millions on ICE ones.

And the DT quoted price for the new LAS electric vehicle is cheaper than the standard vehicle!

Also, DT have extrapolated (aka 'guess') for every ambo in the UK. When they've already told us they're not suitable for rural areas.

Edit: the new LAS electric vehicle is a Ford.

[Taipan]

Happened across an Aussie reel where they talk about real world ranges as found by What Car magazine. This is an issue that comes up often. Do car manufacturers lie as badly about ice ranges?

Another interesting point they make, is if the range is that much less than the manufacturers claims, then they are recharging more, which is another knock of the EVs green credentials.

Said What CAr test...

#

[Slenver]

Aren't we just going in circles now?

[Yorick]

Aren't we just going in circles now?

Has the steering broken ?

[Slenver]

Aren't we just going in circles now?

Has the steering broken ?

[Horse]

Re the runaway car

The Jaguar I-Pace driver alleged the car had accelerated on its own and the brakes had not functioned, according to national newspaper reports.

However, following an investigation, Merseyside Police said a 31-year-old man from Bolton had been arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving and causing a public nuisance.

Merseyside police said: ‘We can confirm that following an investigation, a man has been arrested in relation to an incident on the M62 on Wednesday, March 6, when officers from the force roads policing unit were called to help stop a vehicle safely.

‘An investigation, supported by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, is under way and a 31-year-old man from Bolton has been arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving and causing a public nuisance. He has been taken into police custody to be questioned.’

In a statement to the MailOnline, Jaguar Land Rover said: ‘The safety of our clients and vehicles is JLR’s highest priority and any allegation we receive will always be thoroughly investigated.

‘Where there has been an investigation into reports of uncommanded acceleration, they have been confirmed as driver-commanded application of the accelerator pedal.’

[Slenver]

No great surprise. What a bellend though. Presumably he got caught speeding and decided the best approach was to concoct an easily disprovable story that'll end up far worse for him!

[Mr. Dazzle]

‘Where there has been an investigation into reports of uncommanded acceleration, they have been confirmed as driver-commanded application of the accelerator pedal.’

I suspect >99% of "runaway car syndromes" are actually "wrong pedal syndromes".

[Mr. Dazzle]

Just reading a review of the new Rolls-Royce Spectre. Surely if ever a brand was suited to EVs it's Rolls-Royce. They have names like 'Phantom', 'Ghost' and 'Wraith' to emphasise their silent movement.

But anyway...there's a quote in the R-R press stuff that made me smile. Uttered by Charles Rolls in 1900.

“The electric car is perfectly noiseless and clean. There is no smell or vibration. They should become very useful when fixed charging stations can be arranged".

Plus ça change.

[Slenver]

Our variable electricity tariff is very low for tomorrow, I assume because of the excess of wind planned (though it'll be 20 degrees and sunny where we are, pleasantly enough).

So I just ran the missus' EV as low as possible with a 120mph airport run* to take advantage. Estimated cost to fill up to 100% is —£0.99. That seems fairly reasonable.

I shall buy half a sandwich with my profits.



*I was picking up people, I didn't just drive to the airport to empty the car.

[Horse]

Our variable electricity tariff is very low for tomorrow, I assume because of the excess of wind planned

Check / confirm here:

https://grid.iamkate.com/

At 06:30, 74% of UK electricity generated is from wind.

[Dodgy69]

My meter doesn't recognise aprils energy price reduction.

[Slenver]

Our variable electricity tariff is very low for tomorrow, I assume because of the excess of wind planned

Check / confirm here:

https://grid.iamkate.com/

At 06:30, 74% of UK electricity generated is from wind.

Cool site

This one's a favourite of mine, shows the live pricing for the variable octopus tariff. Also, if you're an existing octopus customer, allows you to enter your account details and compare your current tariff with any other for historical pricing, which is very neat.

[Horse]

https://news.clemson.edu/self-extinguis ... ery-fires/

Apparao Rao, Clemson University and Bingan Lu, Hunan University

In a newly published study, we describe our design for a self-extinguishing rechargeable battery. It replaces the most commonly used electrolyte, which is highly combustible – a medium composed of a lithium salt and an organic solvent – with materials found in a commercial fire extinguisher.

An electrolyte allows lithium ions that carry an electric charge to move across a separator between the positive and negative terminals of a lithium-ion battery. By modifying affordable commercial coolants to function as battery electrolytes, we were able to produce a battery that puts out its own fire.

Our electrolyte worked well across a wide temperature range, from about minus 100 to 175 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 75 to 80 degrees Celsius). Batteries that we produced in the lab with this electrolyte transferred heat away from the battery very well, and extinguished internal fires effectively.

We subjected these batteries to the nail penetration test, a common method for assessing lithium-ion battery safety. Driving a stainless steel nail through a charged battery simulates an internal short circuit; if the battery catches fire, it fails the test. When we drove a nail through our charged batteries, they withstood the impact without catching fire.

By nature, a battery’s temperature changes as it charges and discharges, due to internal resistance – opposition within the battery to the flow of lithium ions. High outdoor temperatures or uneven temperatures within a battery pack seriously threaten batteries’ safety and durability.

Energy-dense batteries, such as the lithium-ion versions that are widely used in electronics and electric vehicles, contain an electrolyte formulation dominated by organic molecules that are highly flammable. This worsens the risk of thermal runaway – an uncontrollable process in which excess heat inside a battery speeds up unwanted chemical reactions that release more heat, triggering further reactions. Temperatures inside the battery can rise by hundreds of degrees in a second, causing a fire or explosion.

Another safety concern arises when lithium-ion batteries are charged too quickly. This can cause chemical reactions that produce very sharp lithium needles called dendrites on the battery’s anode – the electrode with a negative charge. Eventually, the needles penetrate the separator and reach the other electrode, short-circuiting the battery internally and leading to overheating.

As scientists studying energy generation, storage and conversion, we have a strong interest in developing energy-dense and safe batteries. Replacing flammable electrolytes with a flame-retardant electrolyte has the potential to make lithium-ion batteries safer, and can buy time for longer-term improvements that reduce inherent risks of overheating and thermal runaway.

We wanted to develop an electrolyte that was nonflammable, would readily transfer heat away from the battery pack, could function over a wide temperature range, was very durable, and would be compatible with any battery chemistry. However, most known nonflammable organic solvents contain fluorine and phosphorus, which are expensive and can have harmful effects on the environment.

Instead, we focused on adapting affordable commercial coolants that already were widely used in fire extinguishers, electronic testing and cleaning applications, so that they could function as battery electrolytes.

We focused on a mature, safe and affordable commercial fluid called Novec 7300, which has low toxicity, is nonflammable and does not contribute to global warming. By combining this fluid with several other chemicals that added durability, we were able to produce an electrolyte that had the features we sought and would enable a battery to charge and discharge over a full year without losing significant capacity.

Clemson NewsClemson News

SEARCH
search

Topics

Colleges

Divisions

For Journalists

CLEMSON.EDU RESOURCES
University Home
Academics
Admissions
Campus Life
Research
About
College of Science
Self-extinguishing batteries could reduce the risk of deadly and costly battery fires
Share:

3-D artist rendering of lithium batteries
February 6, 2024
Apparao Rao, Clemson University and Bingan Lu, Hunan University

In a newly published study, we describe our design for a self-extinguishing rechargeable battery. It replaces the most commonly used electrolyte, which is highly combustible – a medium composed of a lithium salt and an organic solvent – with materials found in a commercial fire extinguisher.

An electrolyte allows lithium ions that carry an electric charge to move across a separator between the positive and negative terminals of a lithium-ion battery. By modifying affordable commercial coolants to function as battery electrolytes, we were able to produce a battery that puts out its own fire.

The bottom half of a Nissan Leaf electric vehicle, or a cutaway view, shows part of its battery array, a series a silver boxes, below a blue metal seat shell with red pipes running through it.
Cutaway view of a Nissan Leaf electric vehicle showing part of its battery array (silver boxes). Tennen-gas/Wikipedia, CC BY-SA
Our electrolyte worked well across a wide temperature range, from about minus 100 to 175 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 75 to 80 degrees Celsius). Batteries that we produced in the lab with this electrolyte transferred heat away from the battery very well, and extinguished internal fires effectively.

We subjected these batteries to the nail penetration test, a common method for assessing lithium-ion battery safety. Driving a stainless steel nail through a charged battery simulates an internal short circuit; if the battery catches fire, it fails the test. When we drove a nail through our charged batteries, they withstood the impact without catching fire.

Infographic showing the parts of lithium-ion battery
When a lithium-ion battery delivers energy to a device, lithium ions – atoms that carry an electrical charge – move from the anode to the cathode. The ions move in reverse when recharging. Argonne National Laboratory/Flickr, CC BY-NC-SA
Why it matters
By nature, a battery’s temperature changes as it charges and discharges, due to internal resistance – opposition within the battery to the flow of lithium ions. High outdoor temperatures or uneven temperatures within a battery pack seriously threaten batteries’ safety and durability.

Energy-dense batteries, such as the lithium-ion versions that are widely used in electronics and electric vehicles, contain an electrolyte formulation dominated by organic molecules that are highly flammable. This worsens the risk of thermal runaway – an uncontrollable process in which excess heat inside a battery speeds up unwanted chemical reactions that release more heat, triggering further reactions. Temperatures inside the battery can rise by hundreds of degrees in a second, causing a fire or explosion.

Another safety concern arises when lithium-ion batteries are charged too quickly. This can cause chemical reactions that produce very sharp lithium needles called dendrites on the battery’s anode – the electrode with a negative charge. Eventually, the needles penetrate the separator and reach the other electrode, short-circuiting the battery internally and leading to overheating.

As scientists studying energy generation, storage and conversion, we have a strong interest in developing energy-dense and safe batteries. Replacing flammable electrolytes with a flame-retardant electrolyte has the potential to make lithium-ion batteries safer, and can buy time for longer-term improvements that reduce inherent risks of overheating and thermal runaway.


Lithium-ion battery fires in vehicles have become a major concern for firefighters because the batteries burn at very high temperatures for long periods.
How we did our work
We wanted to develop an electrolyte that was nonflammable, would readily transfer heat away from the battery pack, could function over a wide temperature range, was very durable, and would be compatible with any battery chemistry. However, most known nonflammable organic solvents contain fluorine and phosphorus, which are expensive and can have harmful effects on the environment.

Instead, we focused on adapting affordable commercial coolants that already were widely used in fire extinguishers, electronic testing and cleaning applications, so that they could function as battery electrolytes.

We focused on a mature, safe and affordable commercial fluid called Novec 7300, which has low toxicity, is nonflammable and does not contribute to global warming. By combining this fluid with several other chemicals that added durability, we were able to produce an electrolyte that had the features we sought and would enable a battery to charge and discharge over a full year without losing significant capacity.


Standard lithium-ion batteries failing the nail penetration test.
What still isn’t known
Because lithium – an alkali metal – is scarce in our Earth’s crust, it is important to investigate how well batteries that use other, more abundant alkali metal ions, such as potassium or sodium, fare in comparison. For this reason, our study focused predominantly on self-extinguishing potassium-ion batteries, although it also showed that our electrolyte works well for making self-extinguishing lithium-ion batteries.

It remains to be seen whether our electrolyte can work equally well for other types of batteries that are in development, such as sodium-ion, aluminum-ion and zinc-ion batteries. Our goal is to develop practical, environmentally friendly, sustainable batteries regardless of their ion type.

For now, however, since our alternative electrolyte has similar physical properties to currently used electrolytes, it can be readily integrated with current battery production lines. If the industry embraces it, we expect that companies will be able to manufacture nonflammable batteries using their existing lithium-ion battery facilities.

[Dodgy]

I'm deffo having an EV next as the tax giveaway here is gargantuan

[Count Steer]

I'm deffo having an EV next as the tax giveaway here is gargantuan

Out of interest, if they're that encouraging, what's the charging infrastructure like? Can't imagine there's much in between the cities once you go west a bit!

[Slenver]

It's without doubt true that the charging infrastructure here and elsewhere needs greatly expanding, but I would add a point worth considering...

'We've' had our ev for 2 months and 2,500 miles of mixed driving. We've not used any public chargers at all yet, it's all been at home.

It involves a different methodology because you start to plan a bit more in advance, but you are also able to leave the house whenever you like with a full tank, and always do for longer journeys.

Clearly we've not been on any two-week driving holidays or anything, but we've done 260+ mile 6+ hour trips a couple of times.

Public charging will be a necessity at some point, but it'll always be a very rare occurrence for us.

[Saga Lout]

I'm deffo having an EV next as the tax giveaway here is gargantuan

I think I'll wait until they're good enough that the government doesn't have to bribe me (with my own money) to buy one.

[Slenver]

I'm deffo having an EV next as the tax giveaway here is gargantuan

I think I'll wait until they're good enough that the government doesn't have to bribe me (with my own money) to buy one.

Did you also refuse to buy your kids clothes and shoes because of the government no-VAT bribe?