FFS...

[Supermofo]

To be fair Motorex are KTM recommended cos of a business tie in I imagine rather than anything magical. My first 2 690 services were done at the KTM centre and they used Putoline. On the 3rd service they used Motorex, when I asked about the change it seems KTM got the hump about them not being on brand. Mechanics said it made chuff all difference as long as you used the same spec oil. So my 690 had 3 different types of oil in it's life and to the best of my knowledge they made no difference at all.

[mangocrazy]

To be fair Motorex are KTM recommended cos of a business tie in I imagine rather than anything magical. My first 2 690 services were done at the KTM centre and they used Putoline. On the 3rd service they used Motorex, when I asked about the change it seems KTM got the hump about them not being on brand. Mechanics said it made chuff all difference as long as you used the same spec oil. So my 690 had 3 different types of oil in it's life and to the best of my knowledge they made no difference at all.

Yes, it has to be a corporate arrangement. I switched over to Motul years ago on the advice of John Hackett (Ducati Coventry head honcho and erstwhile engine builder to the BSB paddock). He swore by Motul and used nothing else in his engines.

[Rockburner]

My car is just coming up to it's first ever service at 14,000 miles - oil has never been changed since it was brand new. Didn't even have any running in instructions S'not burned a drop of oil in all that time, so far as I can work out. Not that it's easy to tell, it doesn't have a dipstick

Doesn't it have an oil level indication on the dash? My 40 year old Lancia has that...

Coming soon to a forecourt near you - sealed for life engines...

That worked so well for BMW (the post 2004(ish) R1200 and K1200 final drives were supposed to be sealed for life.... )

[Mr. Dazzle]

What you want is an electric motor which never exposes the oil to soot, high pressure, water or temperatures above ~150°C

[Dodgy69]

The MT book says change oil annually and filter every other. Wtf would you leave a part filled filter with old oil in it, when refilling with lovely new clean oil. .

[kendo57]

I have always changed the oil twice per filter , car and bike. The filters are more than capable
of doing there job for longer.

[Skub]

The MT book says change oil annually and filter every other. Wtf would you leave a part filled filter with old oil in it, when refilling with lovely new clean oil. .

I never really got that either,plus filters aren't expensive anyway.

[Sadlonelygit]

I change my oil every 1500-2000, just as it's starting to change colour, filter every other. I use super u fs bike oil at 10.99/2 litres.
Motul makes my gearbox clunkier than the cheap stuff.
Old bike oil goes in the mower which has a serious leak that I REALLY should sort out!
If your bike is going into a stealership for a service, scratch the date onto the filter canister somewhere, then check on collection!

[mangocrazy]

I use super u fs bike oil at 10.99/2 litres.

I'll check that out when I'm next back at the moneypit. Our local supermarche is a Super U so easily done. Ta.

[Mr. Dazzle]

If your bike is going into a stealership for a service, scratch the date onto the filter canister somewhere, then check on collection!

If the official service schedule says "every other change" then they're not necessarily screwing you by leaving the filter on.

The other thing about filters is that they only address one type of oil degradation - particle contamination - which is typically not too big a hitter. Oxidation and thermal damage are usually more significant in an ICE, hence the filter doesn't do that much heavy lifting.

I once did a bunch of work with a tribology expert - not on ICE oil - who was telling me all about his experiences with modern engines and enormous oil change intervals. He told me that with modern bearings, materials etc. engines either die immediately in the factory when first started due to some sort of problem (usually crap in the ultra-fine clearances) or they'll run basically forever*! There's much less middle ground now.

*relative term

[mangocrazy]

Yebbut, if what you say is true and you treat a modern engine really nice with short oil change intervals, then they will actually last forever, forever, not relatively forever, no?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Only has to last until the body rusts away or the software in the dash is no longer supported.

Deffo one of those things will happen

There's also loads of wear mechanisms which are basically nothing to do with the oil.

[mangocrazy]

Only has to last until the body rusts away or the software in the dash is no longer supported.

Deffo one of those things will happen

With cars, yes. Not so much with bikes (which is what we were talking about)

There's also loads of wear mechanisms which are basically nothing to do with the oil.

Yebbut we were discussing wear mechanisms relating to oil, weren't we?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Sure.

There's certainly no harm in changing it often, besides the expense. It just smacks me as fairly unnecessary and something which is not really going to have a major impact on reliability.

It makes people feel better though, which is mostly what it's about. Realistically no-one has any actual data to go on because they usually only have one example of one bike and maybe some hearsay from a mechanic.

[MingtheMerciless]

I remember changing the oil the first time our Focus Mk2 1.6TDCI estate (once it was out of warranty). The filter was one of this ones that you have to take a plastic engine cover off to access, quite a messy job, I'm pretty sure it was the first time the filter had seen the light of day in 4 years and 35000 miles. It was disgusting and the subsequent changes I did, the filter was never as bad looking. The Pollen filter kind of gave the game away on the level of attention the car got at the main stealer as all the very soft plastic screw heads were immaculate and a huge amount of debris came out along with a minging filter, again charged for it every service and on all subsequent services by me it was never anywhere near the state of the first time I serviced it.

[Sadlonelygit]

Sure.

There's certainly no harm in changing it often, besides the expense. It just smacks me as fairly unnecessary and something which is not really going to have a major impact on reliability.

Used to change the oil on race engines (fzr400rr/16200 limiter) after 3 hours use, then it would go in the transit!
I wonder how often red bull/mercedes change their oil (yes, I know their's is a bit special)

[Mr. Dazzle]

Ferrari change theirs even more often. Allegedly.

[KungFooBob]

I wonder if Dave the mechanic puts the old stuff in his A class?

[MrLongbeard]

Car gets done every 15k miles, as did the one before this, and the one before that and the one before that etc, never had an engine fail on me, 1 did blow a head gasket and one snapped a timing belt, but neither are oil related.

Bikes usually get done every other year, so around the 3k miles mark.

[Cousin Jack]

My understanding (or more likely lack of understanding) of oil technology was that at least some rely on long-chain molecules that can be degraded my mechanical shearing as well as other causes, thermal and chemical. Changing it at the recommended intervals, or maybe a bit sooner, might be a good idea.