I fucking hope not. I think there will be even more divide in the country if they do. Make sure you get better locks for your valueables!
As someone who doesn't vote you don't get to have an opinion, but if you want one, who are going to kick them out, there's no one better on the ballot papers?
Do you think that is a coincidence?
Also, if you are going to have a jab at me every time i post on a thread can you just put me back on ignore, you won't be missed.
I'm not having a jab, a pop, or calling you out, you don't play the game so you can't complain about the score.
The other side of the argument is that even bothering to vote is a waste of effort, and has been for some time , but what are you (no not you specifically) going to do?
As someone who doesn't vote you don't get to have an opinion, but if you want one, who are going to kick them out, there's no one better on the ballot papers?
Do you think that is a coincidence?
Also, if you are going to have a jab at me every time i post on a thread can you just put me back on ignore, you won't be missed.
I'm not having a jab, a pop, or calling you out, you don't play the game so you can't complain about the score.
The other side of the argument is that even bothering to vote is a waste of effort, and has been for some time , but what are you (no not you specifically) going to do?
Fuck all. What are/can we do?
We have been pushed into a position as to where we don't have anyone to vote for, has that been planned, IMO it has, in some others people's worlds it hasn't.
I have talked enough about this on here so won't blabber on any more than i need to as i can't be fucked with all the ming mong ping pong.
If the tories get in again this year it's all a fix, even more than i have already thought it was all a fix, but even after that premise has been shone in peoples faces 10 times brighter than the sun after the election nothing will change as no-one can accept that to achieve change we need to remove all the corruption within all the parties which no-one seems to want to try and accomplish as it might affect their comfy life they currently lead!
Only other powerful people can make those changes, either that or we have to all unite and bring everyone together as a collective of people who can rally for change.
Greenman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:07 am
If the tories get in again this year it's all a fix
Let's be clear on what we're saying here.
Fix - as in the ballot is being managed somehow (a UK version of Trump gushing orange tears) ? - probably not.
Fix - as in the amount of money and influence that powerful people can throw at elections to make you vote the way you do? - absolutely yes.
Whether the latter is a nudge to the Tories or to Labour, I'm not sure they've made their minds up yet.
Greenman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:07 am
Fuck all. What are/can we do?
It has been said that people get the government they deserve. What we can do is stop voting for the same old same old. Don't vote Labour or Tory in England, don't vote Tory, Labour or SNP in Scotland. Vote for one of the other candidates, either one that you think represents your own values or if you can't be arsed to do any research just pick one whose name you like. If everybody did that we'd sweep the shitty politicians out of Westminster and install some new politicians. Maybe they'll be better. I don't see how they could be worse.
But that won't happen. People will vote for Sharmer or Sunak even though they're only on the ballot paper in two constituencies. We'll get the government we deserve. We're fucked, aren't we?
Greenman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:07 am
If the tories get in again this year it's all a fix
Let's be clear on what we're saying here.
Fix - as in the ballot is being managed somehow (a UK version of Trump gushing orange tears) ? - probably not.
Fix - as in the amount of money and influence that powerful people can throw at elections to make you vote the way you do? - absolutely yes.
Whether the latter is a nudge to the Tories or to Labour, I'm not sure they've made their minds up yet.
No i wasn't on about voting, that's old hat now, i was referring to the western elite who have managed to put us in such a position the only candidates we can vote for our themselves.
Greenman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:07 am
Fuck all. What are/can we do?
It has been said that people get the government they deserve. What we can do is stop voting for the same old same old. Don't vote Labour or Tory in England, don't vote Tory, Labour or SNP in Scotland. Vote for one of the other candidates, either one that you think represents your own values or if you can't be arsed to do any research just pick one whose name you like. If everybody did that we'd sweep the shitty politicians out of Westminster and install some new politicians. Maybe they'll be better. I don't see how they could be worse.
But that won't happen. People will vote for Sharmer or Sunak even though they're only on the ballot paper in two constituencies. We'll get the government we deserve. We're fucked, aren't we?
Thar might get rid of the politicians, but nothing would change. The Civil Service, and the professions would ensure that any change would just be tinkering around the edges.
The only real change will come from something catastrophic which destroys our society, or perhaps from a very clever and charismatic leader that could overturn politics and who could stay in power (and uncorrupted) for at least 10 years.
How about an anglicised version of the orange world saving baby? Prime minister Fart. Has a degree of gravitas and would make PMQs more of a laugh, if that were possible.
irie wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 9:18 pm
Rejoinng the EU obviously wouldn't stop migrants in France getting into small boats and crossing the Channel.
Lets just deal with this comment. Prior to Brexit the only people queuing at Calais to get on a boat to England were economic migrants who were sent back under the terms of the Dublin agreement (providing they were caught). All the genuine refugees had already applied for asylum in the UK from wherever they landed when they got to Europe. I've probably simplified it somewhat, do feel free to correct me, but try and do it a factual and not condescending way.
irie wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 9:18 pm
Rejoinng the EU obviously wouldn't stop migrants in France getting into small boats and crossing the Channel.
Lets just deal with this comment. Prior to Brexit the only people queuing at Calais to get on a boat to England were economic migrants who were sent back under the terms of the Dublin agreement (providing they were caught). All the genuine refugees had already applied for asylum in the UK from wherever they landed when they got to Europe. I've probably simplified it somewhat, do feel free to correct me, but try and do it a factual and not condescending way.
I'm not sure I understand the situation then, perhaps you'll clarify it for me:
Are the people crossing the channel now genuine refugees or economic migrants?
Personally, I can't see them being genuine refugees - from where are they fleeing and why are they not happy or content to stay in the first 'safe' country they arrived in? I think the UK has been very welcoming of genuine refugees and I think the current feeling towards the boat people is not as welcoming - probably because they are clearly not genuine refugees. Maybe you can convince me otherwise.
Now I don't want to correct you (and I'm well aware that you weren't discussing it with me) but the UK's membership of the EU doesn't (in my view) have any bearing on the current situation.
irie wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 9:18 pm
Rejoinng the EU obviously wouldn't stop migrants in France getting into small boats and crossing the Channel.
Lets just deal with this comment. Prior to Brexit the only people queuing at Calais to get on a boat to England were economic migrants who were sent back under the terms of the Dublin agreement (providing they were caught). All the genuine refugees had already applied for asylum in the UK from wherever they landed when they got to Europe. I've probably simplified it somewhat, do feel free to correct me, but try and do it a factual and not condescending way.
The Brexit vote was in June 2016 and Brexit officially too place in February 2020. Illegal immigration into the EU has enormously increased in the last 4 years, thus comparing pre and post Brexit data provides a correlation. However, the huge increase in illegal immigration into the EU is causal, not Brexit.
ec.europa.eu wrote: 1.08 million non-EU citizens were found to be illegally present in the EU in 2022, up 59 % compared with 2021. 422 400 non-EU citizens were ordered to leave the territory of the EU in 2022, up 23 % compared with 2021
Why migrants wish to come to the UK rather than stay in France is explained pretty well (imo) by this link:
So after years of divisive rhetoric, abusing the least privileged in the land, skimming NHS money off the top so Michelle Mone could by a yacht, the VIP lane and having a far higher criminal headcount per capita than in the general population the Tory party are blaming the electorate for having the sheer temerity to vote against them.
Theyre getting pulled up on their behavior and theyre answer is to double down on it.
Hows that working out now then?
The part that creases me up is the way theyve managed to double the Reform Partys vote share by giving their even more racist divisive rhetoric the oxygen of publicity. At their own expence. Sunak must have the dumbest policymakers since late years Nicolae Ceaușescu.
The problem is much more than the people crossing the channel in boats. Massive numbers of people in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and South America want a European/North American lifestyle. Most of them realise their only chance of getting it is to migrate, legally or illegally.
Unless/until we (Europe/North America) start using military force to repel them they WILL come, in ever increasing numbers.
Not a pleasant scenario, but the stark choice is to start shooting, or in 100 years there will be several billion who have moved.
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 8:02 pm
The problem is much more than the people crossing the channel in boats. Massive numbers of people in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and South America want a European/North American lifestyle. Most of them realise their only chance of getting it is to migrate, legally or illegally.
Unless/until we (Europe/North America) start using military force to repel them they WILL come, in ever increasing numbers.
Not a pleasant scenario, but the stark choice is to start shooting, or in 100 years there will be several billion who have moved.
Well Jack, you could simplify things and bomb the crap out of them before they leave rather than waiting for them to get here. Take off and nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 8:02 pm
The problem is much more than the people crossing the channel in boats. Massive numbers of people in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and South America want a European/North American lifestyle. Most of them realise their only chance of getting it is to migrate, legally or illegally.
Unless/until we (Europe/North America) start using military force to repel them they WILL come, in ever increasing numbers.
Not a pleasant scenario, but the stark choice is to start shooting, or in 100 years there will be several billion who have moved.
Well Jack, you could simplify things and bomb the crap out of them before they leave rather than waiting for them to get here. Take off and nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Notwithstanding what Cousin Jack says above, what is your solution to the above migration which is even now overwhelming the UK's infrastructure, social, and other services?
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
