In todays news...

[Pirahna]

When I was a baby I was vaccinated against measles, mum thought it was a usual thing, turns out I was part of an experiment. They wrote every year until I was 40 to see how I was getting on. I'm 60 now, haven't died and have never had measles.

[Greenman]

But there WAS enough data in 2021 to tell us they were safe and effective?

Safe enough and effective enough compared to (a) the rules (b) the alternative.

Every single new vaccine ever produced does not come with a promise of "won't kill you in 25 years". Yes, things can go wrong but it's rare. We can read the label, we can ask the doctor, we can make our own choices - but don't lets make thoughtless and really ignorant choices based upon some weird prejudice.

But this is the problem with herd vaccine medication - folk don't get vaccined because they think they're invulnerable or are 'prepared to take the risk <because of reasons - very few of which are legitimate>' but they don't consider that if they get the illness or are somehow just a carrier then they become responsible for spreading it to countless others. Your nan, my nan, someone else's nan, that fat bloke who might have had another ten years with his wheezy chest.

Folk like my sister-in-law don't get vaccinated because 'facebook said not to' and instead self-cleanse with unlabelled Chinese tea remedies and shit their pants in bed. She hasn't died of covid and and is now happily telling everyone covid and the vaccines are bullshit because she's proved it.

It also gives an anti-vaccine culture when actual real vaccines need to be rolled out.

The covid vaccine scandal, and yes that is fully what i think it was as there is just too much evidence for it not to have been, has given a large minority the belief that all vaccines are bad, it was handled so badly by the tories and their cronies that no-one will ever trust vaccines again, even the ones that have been used for decades. I'm sure this is also true in other countries as well?

But hey, the rich got richer from it so that is all that matters right?

[JackyJoll]

Up front racism.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/west-end-pla ... formances/

A West End theatre production about race, identity and sexuality in twenty-first century America will be exclusively performed for a black-only audience on certain days to protect them from "the white gaze".

This makes me think their income is not dependent on ticket sales.

[Yorick]

But there WAS enough data in 2021 to tell us they were safe and effective?

Safe enough and effective enough compared to (a) the rules (b) the alternative.

Every single new vaccine ever produced does not come with a promise of "won't kill you in 25 years". Yes, things can go wrong but it's rare. We can read the label, we can ask the doctor, we can make our own choices - but don't lets make thoughtless and really ignorant choices based upon some weird prejudice.

But this is the problem with herd vaccine medication - folk don't get vaccined because they think they're invulnerable or are 'prepared to take the risk <because of reasons - very few of which are legitimate>' but they don't consider that if they get the illness or are somehow just a carrier then they become responsible for spreading it to countless others. Your nan, my nan, someone else's nan, that fat bloke who might have had another ten years with his wheezy chest.

Folk like my sister-in-law don't get vaccinated because 'facebook said not to' and instead self-cleanse with unlabelled Chinese tea remedies and shit their pants in bed. She hasn't died of covid and and is now happily telling everyone covid and the vaccines are bullshit because she's proved it.

It also gives an anti-vaccine culture when actual real vaccines need to be rolled out.

The covid vaccine scandal, and yes that is fully what i think it was as there is just too much evidence for it not to have been, has given a large minority the belief that all vaccines are bad, it was handled so badly by the tories and their cronies that no-one will ever trust vaccines again, even the ones that have been used for decades. I'm sure this is also true in other countries as well?

But hey, the rich got richer from it so that is all that matters right?

The vaccines were used in over 200 countries.
Can't blame the tories for all that

[DefTrap]

It also gives an anti-vaccine culture when actual real vaccines need to be rolled out.

The covid vaccine scandal, and yes that is fully what i think it was as there is just too much evidence for it not to have been, has given a large minority the belief that all vaccines are bad, it was handled so badly by the tories and their cronies that no-one will ever trust vaccines again, even the ones that have been used for decades. I'm sure this is also true in other countries as well?

But hey, the rich got richer from it so that is all that matters right?

I am absolutely no fan of the Tories (because why wouldn't you?) but there is no vaccine scandal and there is no verfiable body of evidence to say that these covid vaccines are anything other than legit. A Labour, Liberal, Green or MonsterRavingLoony party government would have done exactly the same. Unless you seriously want to try to persuade me that other governments of various right/left leanings across the world were similary hoodwinking their populations. So unliklely it's more unlikely than 911 being an inside job.

The only scandal here is the weight of ignorance bandied about in pubs and social media.

[DefTrap]

As far as I know, every single new vaccine ever* produced has been tested on willing volunteers for 10 years or so before being deemed safe enough to release to the general public.

Nope.

[Taipan]

My daughter has had every covid jab they've issued and has had covid 6 times!

[DefTrap]

My daughter has had every covid jab they've issued and has had covid 6 times!

Just stop. You know very well how vaccines work.

[Saga Lout]

As far as I know, every single new vaccine ever* produced has been tested on willing volunteers for 10 years or so before being deemed safe enough to release to the general public.

Nope.

Well, that's a convincing argument.

[DefTrap]

Up front racism.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/west-end-pla ... formances/

A West End theatre production about race, identity and sexuality in twenty-first century America will be exclusively performed for a black-only audience on certain days to protect them from "the white gaze".

Gaze or gays?

[Saga Lout]

My daughter has had every covid jab they've issued and has had covid 6 times!

Just stop. You know very well how vaccines work.

Yeah. You get the vaccine, you don't get the disease. that's (broadly speaking) how traditional vaccines work. These new, trendy, modern vaccines seem to work differently. With a different definition of "work".

[DefTrap]

Well, that's a convincing argument.

There just isn't anything to argue about. The main reason for medical trials historically taking longer is because of scheduling, funding, recruitment.

[Greenman]

Safe enough and effective enough compared to (a) the rules (b) the alternative.

Every single new vaccine ever produced does not come with a promise of "won't kill you in 25 years". Yes, things can go wrong but it's rare. We can read the label, we can ask the doctor, we can make our own choices - but don't lets make thoughtless and really ignorant choices based upon some weird prejudice.

But this is the problem with herd vaccine medication - folk don't get vaccined because they think they're invulnerable or are 'prepared to take the risk <because of reasons - very few of which are legitimate>' but they don't consider that if they get the illness or are somehow just a carrier then they become responsible for spreading it to countless others. Your nan, my nan, someone else's nan, that fat bloke who might have had another ten years with his wheezy chest.

Folk like my sister-in-law don't get vaccinated because 'facebook said not to' and instead self-cleanse with unlabelled Chinese tea remedies and shit their pants in bed. She hasn't died of covid and and is now happily telling everyone covid and the vaccines are bullshit because she's proved it.

It also gives an anti-vaccine culture when actual real vaccines need to be rolled out.

The covid vaccine scandal, and yes that is fully what i think it was as there is just too much evidence for it not to have been, has given a large minority the belief that all vaccines are bad, it was handled so badly by the tories and their cronies that no-one will ever trust vaccines again, even the ones that have been used for decades. I'm sure this is also true in other countries as well?

But hey, the rich got richer from it so that is all that matters right?

The vaccines were used in over 200 countries.
Can't blame the tories for all that

Hence my 'im sure it's the same in other countries as well' comment!

I'm sure there are also rich, greedy, corrupt scum running lot's of other countries too, in fact i'm sure of it.

[DefTrap]

Yeah. You get the vaccine, you don't get the disease. that's (broadly speaking) how traditional vaccines work. These new, trendy, modern vaccines seem to work differently. With a different definition of "work".

Actual data states that the COVID-vaccinated are -
8 times less likely to get COVID-19
25 times less likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19
25 times less likely to die of COVID-19

So, your opening premise isn't correct. More 'traditional' vaccines, like say flu vaccines, don't offer you 100% protection either - but if you get it it is likely to be milder and shorter.

[Yorick]

My daughter has had every covid jab they've issued and has had covid 6 times!

That's just greedy.

[Taipan]

Worth a read if you're interested in how (one of) the vaccines was created.

Here's disgraced Phil and Evasive Holly with the book's authors and their synopsis...

[Saga Lout]

Well, that's a convincing argument.

There just isn't anything to argue about. The main reason for medical trials historically taking longer is because of scheduling, funding, recruitment...

..and the need to collect long term data. You "forgot" that bit.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Wouldn't it be remarkable and exciting if it was all a con and dark forces who run the world etc and only WE saw that because the rest of the world was too stupid. Wouldn't that make us feel remarkable and special ... because we had found this evidence ON THE INTERNET!

Wouldn't it be less remarkable and make us feel less special if it was all as it appeared and not some sort of huge conspiracy which had fooled everyone else, including all the world's scientists etc (unless they're in on it, like they are with global warming and the moon landings and ...)

[Saga Lout]

Yeah. You get the vaccine, you don't get the disease. that's (broadly speaking) how traditional vaccines work. These new, trendy, modern vaccines seem to work differently. With a different definition of "work".

Actual data states that the COVID-vaccinated are -
8 times less likely to get COVID-19
25 times less likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19
25 times less likely to die of COVID-19

So, your opening premise isn't correct. More 'traditional' vaccines, like say flu vaccines, don't offer you 100% protection either - but if you get it it is likely to be milder and shorter.

I did say "broadly speaking". Traditional vaccines: polio, tuberculosis, measles, mumps, rubella etc. you get the vaccine and you don't get the disease. Flu is rather different in that there are lots of variants of flu virus so the experts have to predict which variants are likely to be most prevalent in any particular year and tailor the vaccine accordingly. Sometimes they get it wrong. That's why it's not 100% effective.

But you knew that already, didn't you? That's why you chose the flu vaccine as an example of a traditional vaccine.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm guessing you've never had a booster vaccine for er...anything...then SL.

Some offer good protection for life, some offer a bit of protection for a while. It's always been that way and isn't evidence of any sinister plot.