Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[mangocrazy]

I think his point about EV sales is very valid though. Why buy one now, knowing they're hoping to dramatically improve in efficiency in the next few years. Plus the winter usage/range issue. He is also bang on with the battery health needing to be displayed, like on phones. All 3 points are a massive issue for resale.

Also, his point about private transport only making up for around c7% CO2 gases, makes you wonder why you'd even bother with EVs. Like Harry, I'm someone who likes the idea of EVs, but also the same as him, i'll be sticking with diesels for some time to come i think.

I'm with PieTin on this. EVs are just at the start of their developmental curve and whatever you buy now will be out of date in 5 years or possibly less. This is reflected in residuals, which are awful for EVs. They're also far too fucking expensive new and battery life and range are to an extent unknowns. The concept of EVs is great, but they need about 20-30 years before they become mature tech. I'm sticking with dirty diesels for the forseeable.

[mangocrazy]

So basically the consistently more and more stringent Euro2/3/4/5/6 regulations have had a net effect of diddly-squat?

No, its ruined some otherwise perfectly good motorbikes...

Agreed - but that can be rectified. At a cost, admittedly.

[Cousin Jack]

Some strange figures for motorcycles in those Govt stats. Worse than cars ?? My bike does 80 mpg, car is considerably worse despite being a hybrid.

[Count Steer]

There's certainly a lot more to it than just saying "private cars are only 7%".

It's reductio ad absurdum isn't it? The next step is to say 'and my car makes a negligible % of that 7% (which is actually a significant amount) therefore I'll keep driving it.

It's like when people sat stuff like 'It's only 0.5% of GDP'. 0.5% of a big number is a big number.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It's reductio ad absurdum isn't it? The next step is to say 'and my car makes a negligible % of that 7% (which is actually a significant amount) therefore I'll keep driving it.

It's the same argument applied to pretty much any facet of anything to do with Climate Change or the Environment at large.

My bit is only 0.0000000nothing %. It's even true! It just overlooks the fact that if everyone thinks that way things don't work.

It's just like Taxes. If I was allowed to not pay my taxes it'd have bugger all effect on the economy, but you'd all think it was unfair

[Mr. Dazzle]

So basically the consistently more and more stringent Euro2/3/4/5/6 regulations have had a net effect of diddly-squat?

Some more light reading for anyone who wonders why their bike has a wheelie bin on it.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... cument.pdf

[MrLongbeard]

Some strange figures for motorcycles in those Govt stats. Worse than cars ?? My bike does 80 mpg, car is considerably worse despite being a hybrid.

Yeah, but some of us ride 'em like we're supposed to, I reckon I get 40mpg if that

[Taipan]

Let us not forget that electricity is a final, not primary, energy source. That should be factored into EVs green claims. Plus the horror of cobalt mining, or that China is the world leader in EV battery production and China is the world's largest annual greenhouse gas emitter. So in the case of EVs, there is smoke without fire!

[Mr. Dazzle]

Even if you run an EV off a grid powered entirely by coal stations the emissions are still lower because the efficiency of the vehicle is so much higher, even factoring all the grid losses in. Here in the UK we basically don't use coal, in fact wind+solar was the biggest source of leccy in 2023 (~35% of everything generated, compared to 32% for gas).

https://www.nationalgrideso.com/news/br ... 023-review

China is indeed a big emitter, but they're also the worlds largest investor in renewable power. In 2023 alone they installed more solar power than the US has in all of history.

And of course, all that stuff China makes ends up over here, so we can hardly claim innocence.

[Taipan]

"Coal-fired power stations emit over 10 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide each year,[6] about one fifth of world greenhouse gas emissions, so are the single largest cause of climate change.[7]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-fired_power_station

That's before we even start on how the coal gets delivered to the power station...

[Yambo]

So in the case of EVs, there is smoke and fire!

Corrected for you.

[Mr. Dazzle]

That's before we even start on how the coal gets delivered to the power station...

They send it on those boats as they make a return trip after delivering all your Temu and Alibaba crap

[Slenver]

Well, we (finally) got our charger installed today so the Q4 is taking its first sips of leccy at 7 rather than 2 kW.

Also changed our tariff to Octopus's superb variable one that has 30-min slots. I'd planned to move to the dual tariff for super-cheap overnight charging, but tbh, the car is relatively small-fry compared to our electric heating costs, so the new tariff that halves our daytime rate works out far better.

Still, even at those rates, having done (...checks app on phone...) 316 miles in the car now, we'll average a cost equivalent of around 150mpg. Would've been 260 if we'd gone for the dual tariff, but at those levels (and the car's usage) it really only equates to a few quid saving when it cost either 6 quid or a tenner to fill up once a week.

Overall, very pleased with it. The missus loves the refinement and general feeling of quality, I like the outrageous torque

In terms of all the above discussion and arguments, I'd certainly not buy an EV outright at the moment... this is leased through work and actually, with residuals being so bad, there are some lease bargains out there. My brother was offered £299 +VAT on a Model Y the other day.

Also, in terms of all the cobalts and CO2s and the like, we do also have a combined cubic capacity of 10.9 litres' worth of petrol and diesel vehicles in the household (not counting the mower), so the Q4 is pretty lame carbon offsetting.

[ZRX61]

[Slenver]

There's *some* sense in that, except of course that, despite not listing any of the massive cons that have led to the need for EVs in the first place, all the figures are exaggerated to such a degree as to make it laughable. If you can find me a new Audi Q5 that weighs one tonne, costs £25k and has a range of 1200 miles then I'd buy one. As would everyone else. Especially if it did 250mpg instead of 35.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Pretty funny to try and use "environmentally damaging non-renewable magnet" as an argument for using fossil fuel powered cars.

Now excuse me while I go use my asbestos oven gloves and lead plates

[mangocrazy]

I did ask my cat how he was going to account for his tail pipe emissions, but he just yawned and went back to licking his balls.

[ZRX61]

More awkwardness..

https://justthenews.com/nation/states/c ... s-collapse

[Pirahna]

More awkwardness..

https://justthenews.com/nation/states/c ... s-collapse

Haven't they just ordered some very expensive hydrogen powered trains just as Shell have closed all their hydrogen filling stations.

[Slenver]

More awkwardness..

https://justthenews.com/nation/states/c ... s-collapse

Isn't that good news and part of the solution to the 'problem' of adoption?

You can't have it both ways.