Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

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Count Steer
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Count Steer »

Screwdriver wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:37 pm
Well an American went into the lions den to interview the most dangerous man on the planet and an enemy of our own imperialist ambitions. We know Putin is an evil fucker, most of his political enemies die horribly and people who disagree with him have a strange habit of throwing themselves out of windows.

So when Tucker calmly says "Have you told Viktor Orbán that he can have a part of Ukraine?" I nearly fell off my chair. Balls of steel if you ask me.

A nice touch to ask about the American hostage. I wasn't sure what to expect from such a staged interview, No doubt Putin had their finest A.I and a dozen FSB personnel whispering in his ear; shades of "this wonderful town, Salisbury, which has a famous cathedral and 123m spire, and is famous for its clock"

I was disappointed with the content of course but then I wasn't really expecting much.
I incline more towards this analysis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentis ... pp_Other
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Screwdriver »

Count Steer wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:51 am
I incline more towards this analysis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentis ... pp_Other
I can't think why? The article just moans about Tucker and make unsubstantiated allegations. There is no factual content other than to say what did NOT happen. Can you not see how easy that sort of vacuous criticism is?

Then I got to the bit about criticising Tucker because of "the lies" regarding the Dominion voting machines. Naturally they wouldn't expand on what they mean by those "lies" because what Tucker actually did was to reveal the truth.

That is why he got fired and that is why the legacy media are so terrified of independent, real journalists.
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by irie »

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:21 pm
Count Steer wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:51 am
I incline more towards this analysis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentis ... pp_Other
I can't think why? The article just moans about Tucker and make unsubstantiated allegations. There is no factual content other than to say what did NOT happen. Can you not see how easy that sort of vacuous criticism is?

Then I got to the bit about criticising Tucker because of "the lies" regarding the Dominion voting machines. Naturally they wouldn't expand on what they mean by those "lies" because what Tucker actually did was to reveal the truth.

That is why he got fired and that is why the legacy media are so terrified of independent, real journalists.
And you know that the above is "the truth" because someone somewhere who you have chosen to believe has said that it is. :lol:
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by mangocrazy »

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:21 pm Then I got to the bit about criticising Tucker because of "the lies" regarding the Dominion voting machines. Naturally they wouldn't expand on what they mean by those "lies" because what Tucker actually did was to reveal the truth.

That is why he got fired and that is why the legacy media are so terrified of independent, real journalists.
So Fox gave Dominion $787million just to sweeten the pain of Fox (Carlson) telling 'the truth' about Dominion's voting machines? The world is clearly run by philanthropists.
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Screwdriver »

irie wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 8:13 pm
Screwdriver wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:21 pm
Count Steer wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:51 am
I incline more towards this analysis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentis ... pp_Other
I can't think why? The article just moans about Tucker and make unsubstantiated allegations. There is no factual content other than to say what did NOT happen. Can you not see how easy that sort of vacuous criticism is?

Then I got to the bit about criticising Tucker because of "the lies" regarding the Dominion voting machines. Naturally they wouldn't expand on what they mean by those "lies" because what Tucker actually did was to reveal the truth.

That is why he got fired and that is why the legacy media are so terrified of independent, real journalists.
And you know that the above is "the truth" because someone somewhere who you have chosen to believe has said that it is. :lol:

For a brief moment, I thought you might be asking a sensible question but <sigh> just another insult.

For what it's worth, the mere fact that you stick a LOL at me tells me you have no idea what that report actually revealed about those Dominion machines. They were for example subpoena'd to be examined by an independent authority and the company point blank refused. Lots and lots of stuff like that, with witness statements, data logs revealing those machines were in fact networked, manipulation of error data. Tons and tons of very curious and suspicious "stories", 'accounts", "lies" (if you insist) and yet not a single one of them has ever been meaningfully addressed.

Even if every single one of the vast number of anomalous behaviours indicating election interference was a complete fabrication, you would expect they would therefore be easily and comprehensively rebutted with simple and incontrovertible evidence to prove beyond any doubt those allegations were false.

But no. Every single one is dodged, denied, refused or thrown out of court on some technicality. That in and of itself is enough for me to remain highly skeptical and yet for those who choose to lean the other way, they see the exact same scenario as "fair enough".

Getting back on topic, it reminds me of the attitude towards a US journalist daring to actually talk to the enemy. Er, ok so what is the plan then? One assumes at some stage someone will have to talk to Putin to negotiate some sort of settlement. Or is the plan to just keep syphoning off BILLIONS of dollars out of the economy and giving it to your mates in the weapons manufacturing industry. Billion for you, couple of million for me....

Question the irregularities and obvious signs or interference with the election and you are branded a right wing terr'ist by the legacy media. Well why is the data so unusual with record numbers of voters for the most deeply unpopular president of all time? Could it have been a done deal long before the election even took place? With 60% of the postal votes being harvested three months prior to the election? Is that why all Biden had to do was hide in his cellar and suppress all of the stories about his corrupt activities (in Ukraine!), denounce the Hunter Biden laptop, pump out non stop lies about Russian interference sponsored by H. Clinton. The whole thing was a scam.

Question the merit of pumping billions and billions of dollars into an unwinnable war in the most corrupt corner of the former Soviet Union and again, the legacy media will spend more time going after the whistleblower, denouncing them as traitors than addressing the facts (or lies!) of answers to questions which they insist cannot be asked. What is the plan then? Just keep going? Are things getting better? Or worse? What's the worst that could happen?

A more pertinent question being, who benefits most from this shitshow? Are the people making those decisions benefitting financially from the current situation and if so, what is their motivation (if any) for finding a peaceful solution?
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by irie »

@ScrewdriverOnline word count says over 500 words above trying to justify your confirmation bias.

Edit: online word count
Last edited by irie on Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Horse »

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So what are you doing (and have done through the past two years), what do you suggest we do?
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Horse »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68266447

Donald Trump has said he would "encourage" Russia to attack any Nato member that fails to pay its bills as part of the Western military alliance.

At a rally on Saturday, he said he had once told a leader he would not protect a nation behind on its payments, and would "encourage" the aggressors to "do whatever the hell they want".


So is this:
- Let Ukraine join NATO
- "Oh dear, you can't afford the cover charge for a seat at the table?"
- No defence support, no more funding
- "Well you knew the rules before you joined, it's your own fault ... "
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

Donald Trump in "every relationship is a transaction" shocker.

You're talking about a man who didn't go to someone's funeral because that someone didn't go to Trump's inauguration. :lol: Like you somehow need to keep score with a dead man.
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Yambo »

Horse wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:30 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68266447

Donald Trump has said he would "encourage" Russia to attack any Nato member that fails to pay its bills as part of the Western military alliance.

At a rally on Saturday, he said he had once told a leader he would not protect a nation behind on its payments, and would "encourage" the aggressors to "do whatever the hell they want".


So is this:
- Let Ukraine join NATO
- "Oh dear, you can't afford the cover charge for a seat at the table?"
- No defence support, no more funding
- "Well you knew the rules before you joined, it's your own fault ... "

That's all rather disingenuous isn't it because I'm sure you read this bit:
same BBC article wrote:He recalled that the leader of a "big country" had presented a hypothetical situation in which he was not meeting his financial obligations within Nato and had come under attack from Moscow.
Hypothetical questions usually get hypothetical answers, as is only right.

Whilst you can make it appear that Trump was encouraging the Russians it could also be argued that he was telling other NATO countries that if they want the support of NATO they have to pay their dues.
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

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While I agree that all NATO countries should pull their weight in developing a credible defence system, I suspect what Trumpski is getting at is, 'You should all be spending your 2%+ of GDP, on our weapons' - got to keep the good ol' USA's military-industrial complex going eh?

Sadly, it's probably cheaper to buy/rent their systems than go though the horrors of joint European design and development if we want anything viable delivering in a useful timescale. One thing the UK on its own fails to do, on a regular basis, is develop anything worth having at a price worth paying (IED-hardened manpower carriers anyone? :roll: )

PS If the Mad Mango is serious, Canada spends about 1% of GDP on defence. So he'd be happy to let his water sports buddy roll through Montreal and park their missile systems on the border. Uh huh. Sure.
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by mangocrazy »

Count Steer wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:30 pm PS If the Mad Mango is serious
Oi! I resent that remark... less of the Trump to Mango comparisons if you don't mind... Trump to Orange comparisons are fine though...
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Bigjawa »

Count Steer wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:30 pm While I agree that all NATO countries should pull their weight in developing a credible defence system, I suspect what Trumpski is getting at is, 'You should all be spending your 2%+ of GDP, on our weapons' - got to keep the good ol' USA's military-industrial complex going eh?

Sadly, it's probably cheaper to buy/rent their systems than go though the horrors of joint European design and development if we want anything viable delivering in a useful timescale. One thing the UK on its own fails to do, on a regular basis, is develop anything worth having at a price worth paying (IED-hardened manpower carriers anyone? :roll: )

PS If the Mad Mango is serious, Canada spends about 1% of GDP on defence. So he'd be happy to let his water sports buddy roll through Montreal and park their missile systems on the border. Uh huh. Sure.
Trump also forgets that he needs European cooperation to run his little proxy wars. That airstrike against Gaddafi in 86 nearly didn't happen because France and Spain didn't want to know and they had to fly the long way through the straits of Gibraltar. Presumably the nations that can't pay their way will include Turkey so if they need access to the middle east, it'll be carriers only unless they commit massive amounts of tanker support.

I can see Starmer telling him to jog on and putting restrictions on US military exercises in UK airspace too. Trump is the everything Labour despises.

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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Horse »

Yambo wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:08 am That's all rather disingenuous isn't it because I'm sure you read this bit:
And I'm sure you didn't overlook this:

At a rally on Saturday

Two - very different - occasions. One might well have been a hypothetical answer. This was a statement.
Whilst you can make it appear that Trump was encouraging the Russians it could also be argued that he was telling other NATO countries that if they want the support of NATO they have to pay their dues.
I'm not trying to make it appear anything. What I did was suggest one way he might spin it. I'm sure there are many more possibilities.
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Yambo »

Horse wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 2:01 pm
Yambo wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:08 am That's all rather disingenuous isn't it because I'm sure you read this bit:
And I'm sure you didn't overlook this:

At a rally on Saturday

Two - very different - occasions. One might well have been a hypothetical answer. This was a statement.
Whilst you can make it appear that Trump was encouraging the Russians it could also be argued that he was telling other NATO countries that if they want the support of NATO they have to pay their dues.
I'm not trying to make it appear anything. What I did was suggest one way he might spin it. I'm sure there are many more possibilities.

You're doing it again!

You're trying to make it appear that at the rally on Saturday he said he would encourage the Russians etc but read your own quote again, all off it. He was bragging that at some time in the past he'd told some leader of a NATO country in response to a hypothetical question that's what he'd do.
Horse wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:30 am At a rally on Saturday, he said he had once told a leader he would not protect a nation behind on its payments, and would "encourage" the aggressors to "do whatever the hell they want".[/i]
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Yambo »

Count Steer wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:30 pm While I agree that all NATO countries should pull their weight in developing a credible defence system, I suspect what Trumpski is getting at is, 'You should all be spending your 2%+ of GDP, on our weapons' - got to keep the good ol' USA's military-industrial complex going eh?

You're going to have to explain to me why the USA twice refused to sell the Patriot system to Turkey (a NATO ally of course) but got really shirty when Erdoğan bought the S400 system from Russia.
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Horse »

Yambo wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:02 pm

You're doing it again!

You're trying to make it appear ...
Horse wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:30 am At a rally on Saturday, he said he had once told a leader he would not protect a nation behind on its payments, and would "encourage" the aggressors to "do whatever the hell they want".[/i]
So by giving the quote, I'm trying to make it appear something else? Seems a strange way to achieve it. I was more interested that he chose to tell the tale.

So why do you think he raised the issue at a rally in the US? Dementia, just reading whatever the script said, or some implied message and, if so what and to whom?
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

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Yambo wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:08 pm
Count Steer wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:30 pm While I agree that all NATO countries should pull their weight in developing a credible defence system, I suspect what Trumpski is getting at is, 'You should all be spending your 2%+ of GDP, on our weapons' - got to keep the good ol' USA's military-industrial complex going eh?

You're going to have to explain to me why the USA twice refused to sell the Patriot system to Turkey (a NATO ally of course) but got really shirty when Erdoğan bought the S400 system from Russia.
They refused, twice, to sell them the (at the time) latest system - which is what Turkey wanted. They offered the earlier version. Eventually they agreed to supply the latest version....after Turkey had contracted for the (better) S400 system.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/the-r ... hase-42381

https://www.quora.com/Why-didn-t-the-Ob ... rom-Russia
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by Taipan »

From the clips I’ve seen, it bears out Trumps claims that he will end the Ukrainian war. Looks like Putin will talk to Trump as Trump as claimed he will but (Putin) won’t talk to Biden. I must watch the whole interview at some point…
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Re: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Post by mangocrazy »

Count Steer wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:55 pm
Yambo wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:08 pm
Count Steer wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:30 pm While I agree that all NATO countries should pull their weight in developing a credible defence system, I suspect what Trumpski is getting at is, 'You should all be spending your 2%+ of GDP, on our weapons' - got to keep the good ol' USA's military-industrial complex going eh?

You're going to have to explain to me why the USA twice refused to sell the Patriot system to Turkey (a NATO ally of course) but got really shirty when Erdoğan bought the S400 system from Russia.
They refused, twice, to sell them the (at the time) latest system - which is what Turkey wanted. They offered the earlier version. Eventually they agreed to supply the latest version....after Turkey had contracted for the (better) S400 system.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/the-r ... hase-42381

https://www.quora.com/Why-didn-t-the-Ob ... rom-Russia
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