Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Mr. Dazzle]

The heater isn't what would be making it take twice as long, the heater power is a drop in the ocean compared to what the battery charges/discharges at.

The issue is that batteries don't just have a pipe which goes in like a tank, the rate you can charge them up or discharge them is related to a number of things, including their temperature. Cold batteries don't like being charged up and they don't like discharging (i.e. they can handle less power). So when it's really cold they're tool cold to accept a high power charge, doing so would damage them. So they have self protection features built in. It's only really fast charging that'd be an issue, they'd be fine on a 7kW home charger even when it's minus lots.

When it's really cold an ICE car won't even start, see above

[Taipan]

I do think the EV bubble has burst. The cost of living thing started it as suddenly they became notably more expensive to charge. Then the cobalt mining horror got publicised and Chinese battery production dependency and finally people are realising electricity is an end product and EVs probably aren’t as green as touted.

The ICE is dead, long live the ICE!

[KungFooBob]

ICE ICE Baby.

[Yambo]

My colleague just got back from Holiday in Sweden.

No one could start their ICE cars (cause its minus 40 ) and the only vehicles on the road were EVs. Lots of queuing at Taxi ranks to get a Tesla ride.

I'd have thought the Swedes etc do what the Canadians do. They don't have problems starting or using ICE cars and I've been in some pretty low temperatures and not had a problem with ICE military vehicles which were fairly low tech at the time.

Problems haven't arisen just because there's a new kid on the block.

[Mr. Dazzle]

My colleague just got back from Holiday in Sweden.

No one could start their ICE cars (cause its minus 40 ) and the only vehicles on the road were EVs. Lots of queuing at Taxi ranks to get a Tesla ride.

I'd have thought the Swedes etc do what the Canadians do. They don't have problems starting or using ICE cars and I've been in some pretty low temperatures and not had a problem with ICE military vehicles which were fairly low tech at the time.

Problems haven't arisen just because there's a new kid on the block.

I was because minus 40 is/was unusually cold, even for Sweden. Or that part of Sweden at least.

If you're expecting it to be -40 you can prepare. Block heaters, different fuel and all the rest of it. I know if I put my ICE car as it currently is in -40 conditions it wouldn't start, it might even break 'cause of the coolant. I'd need to pre-plan for it to be that cold. Even -20 would be a big push.

Which is exactly the same sort of scenario as reported in Chicago with the Teslas. People weren't prepared/didn't plan for the conditions, the choice of vehicle type is pretty much irrelevant to that situation.

[Count Steer]

My colleague just got back from Holiday in Sweden.

No one could start their ICE cars (cause its minus 40 ) and the only vehicles on the road were EVs. Lots of queuing at Taxi ranks to get a Tesla ride.

I'd have thought the Swedes etc do what the Canadians do. They don't have problems starting or using ICE cars and I've been in some pretty low temperatures and not had a problem with ICE military vehicles which were fairly low tech at the time.

Problems haven't arisen just because there's a new kid on the block.

Yup. Traffic was moving just fine when I hired a (normal saloon) car in Calgary in the depths of winter (and drove it over the Rockies to Vancouver). I thought it was odd that they supplied the car without a block heater cable though - had to go out and buy one. Parked up in Banff on the first night, before I got one, and it sounded like it was making ice cubes when I started it the next morning

Once I'd got one, never had a problem - at some pretty nippy temperatures. (Never had a problem with snow on the roads either as long as I stuck to regular roads).

[Horse]

Seriously, did someone actually say that or did the 'reporter' make it up??!! I don't have an EV but even I know that if you're trying to charge one but also have the heaters running, it's gonna take a bloody long time!!

He said he's been sitting in the car running the heaters and it was taking about twice as long to charge.

IIRC taking power (e.g. heating) warms the battery. Then see D's post re charging.

I've heard suggestions of turning an ICE car's headlamps on before trying to start the engine. Same principle.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Using the heater would take some power from the battery and warm it yeah, but you're talking about sucking 1 or 2kW from a battery built to supply a couple of hundred kW, so it probably won't move the needle much.

'Normal' car batteries are of course much much smaller, so the headlights etc represent a bigger chunk.

Bigger source of heat is the motor coolant, most EVs can pump the motor/controller coolant around the battery to warm it. Kinda relies on the car being in motion Even then, the efficiency is generally so high there's not much waste heat to be used in that way.

[ZRX61]

My colleague just got back from Holiday in Sweden.

No one could start their ICE cars (cause its minus 40 ) and the only vehicles on the road were EVs. Lots of queuing at Taxi ranks to get a Tesla ride.

I'd have thought the Swedes etc do what the Canadians do. They don't have problems starting or using ICE cars and I've been in some pretty low temperatures and not had a problem with ICE military vehicles which were fairly low tech at the time.

Problems haven't arisen just because there's a new kid on the block.

In the colder parts of the US the vehicles have block heaters.

[Taipan]

Great advert!

[ZRX61]

Which is exactly the same sort of scenario as reported in Chicago with the Teslas. People weren't prepared/didn't plan for the conditions, the choice of vehicle type is pretty much irrelevant to that situation.

People didn't plan? Part of the problem was the charging stations shit the bed.

[Pirahna]

Tesla cut prices again.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/17/tesla-s ... china.html

[ZRX61]

Ford just cut F150 Lightning production again. 900 workers went to another line, 500 more took buy outs.

I actually saw one on the road yesterday, the 2nd.

Guy on another forum mentioned that his local Chevy dealer has 100 Bolts on the lot (the EV, not loose hardware).

[Taipan]

A downward trend is definitely emerging...

[Slenver]

A downward trend is definitely emerging...

It really isn't. Don't confuse negative anecdotes with data.

IMG_0693.png (84.11 KiB) Viewed 393 times

[Mr. Dazzle]

The big reason Ford et al are slowing production and dropping prices is cause Chinese state subsidised manufacturers are under cutting them, not because people aren't buying EVs.

Its a deliberate ploy by the Chinese to push western manufacturers out of the market while there's an opportunity because of a paradigm shift.

[Taipan]

A downward trend is definitely emerging...

It really isn't. Don't confuse negative anecdotes with data.


IMG_0693.png

You know this is a bike forum right?

[Slenver]

A downward trend is definitely emerging...

It really isn't. Don't confuse negative anecdotes with data.

IMG_0693.png

You know this is a bike forum right?

I'm sorry

[Mr. Dazzle]

It's important to remember that all these articles which use phrases like "softening", "slow down" etc. are talking about reductions in the rate of growth, not absolute reductions.

For a period EV sales were growing at ~100% a year. Now they're only growing at 50% or 30% or whatever. But when you're not selling many, 100% more isn't that big an increase. Now they're selling millions (literally) so the percentages look different.

For comparison the overall car sales growth every year is down in the single digit percentages, or even negative.

'Course, climatechangetroof.net.biz just picks up the words "slow down"

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a46463036 ... x-gm-ford/

[demographic]

A downward trend is definitely emerging...

Nope, it isn't.
Year on year theres been a large increase in EV's.

News reporting bullshit shocker.