Israel's war with Hamas (and other Iran proxies)

[JackyJoll]

People feel threatened; they react.

Or in this case, they over-react.

That’s a question of degree.

I know I’ve asked before, but what would you do, were you running Israel?

[demographic]

Hamas really killed, tortured and raped people in their raid. They said they want to do it again.

Fu ny you mention that cos I saw footage of an elderly ex Israeli soldier talking about killing Palestinians and members of his platoon raping Palestinian women as well.
Cant find it now

However, I'm against Hamas doing it to Israelis and believe the one guilty should be brought to justice, just as much as Israel should be brought to justice for war crimes. Theyve killed thousands of women and children now.
War crimes are still war crimes, whatever justification people try and manufacture.

[JackyJoll]

Yes, there’s no justification for war crimes and atrocities.

No-one can disagree.

Ok, Hamas and their friends might disagree.

[irie]

Yes, there’s no justification for war crimes and atrocities.

No-one can disagree.

Ok, Hamas and their friends might disagree.

The problem, of course, is that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran and its other proxies justify what they do as being a war of "liberation". So from their point of view 'right' is on their side, as does Israel also believe that it has 'right' on its side.

[irie]

Fascinating watching Antony Blinken trying to get a regional consensus driven Israel/Palestine peace deal.

And at the same time creating a regional concensus for taking action against Yemeni Houthis, Iran's proxies, to ensure that the Suez canal shipping route remains open.

[Count Steer]

Fascinating watching Antony Blinken trying to get a regional consensus driven Israel/Palestine peace deal.

And at the same time creating a regional concensus for taking action against Yemeni Houthis, Iran's proxies, to ensure that the Suez canal shipping route remains open.

Strictly speaking, the Houthis aren't proxies, they're 'independent allies'. (According to Frank Gardner, the BBC Security Correspondent).

[irie]

Fascinating watching Antony Blinken trying to get a regional consensus driven Israel/Palestine peace deal.

And at the same time creating a regional concensus for taking action against Yemeni Houthis, Iran's proxies, to ensure that the Suez canal shipping route remains open.

Strictly speaking, the Houthis aren't proxies, they're 'independent allies'. (According to Frank Gardner, the BBC Security Correspondent).

"Independent"? Reported that the Houthis are:

1. Financed by Iran.
2. Trained by Iran (for example in Iran's Caspian sea base.).
3. Are armed by Iran
4. And happen to be Shia, same religious sect as Iran with the same anti Saudi/West/Sunni focus.

If not proxies then what are they? Perhaps Frank Gardner has a special definition ...

[Count Steer]

And at the same time creating a regional concensus for taking action against Yemeni Houthis, Iran's proxies, to ensure that the Suez canal shipping route remains open.

Strictly speaking, the Houthis aren't proxies, they're 'independent allies'. (According to Frank Gardner, the BBC Security Correspondent).

"Independent"? Reported that the Houthis are:

1. Financed by Iran.
2. Trained by Iran (for example in Iran's Caspian sea base.).
3. Are armed by Iran
4. And happen to be Shia, same religious sect as Iran with the same anti Saudi/West/Sunni focus.

If not proxies then what are they? Perhaps Frank Gardner has a special definition ...

As the United States National Security Council stated: "It remains our assessment that Iran does not exert command and control over the Houthis in Yemen".

Terminology matters.

The Yemeni Houthis produce many of their own weapons. Yes, they may use Iranian made ones, but so does Russia.

Frank Gardner is an ex military chap and an expert on these things. I'll takes his words for it - 'independent allies'.

[JackyJoll]

Whatever you want to call the guys attacking the ships, killing them looks like a reasonable course of action.

[Mr Moofo]

Strictly speaking, the Houthis aren't proxies, they're 'independent allies'. (According to Frank Gardner, the BBC Security Correspondent).

"Independent"? Reported that the Houthis are:

1. Financed by Iran.
2. Trained by Iran (for example in Iran's Caspian sea base.).
3. Are armed by Iran
4. And happen to be Shia, same religious sect as Iran with the same anti Saudi/West/Sunni focus.

If not proxies then what are they? Perhaps Frank Gardner has a special definition ...

As the United States National Security Council stated: "It remains our assessment that Iran does not exert command and control over the Houthis in Yemen".

Terminology matters.

The Yemeni Houthis produce many of their own weapons. Yes, they may use Iranian made ones, but so does Russia.

Frank Gardner is an ex military chap and an expert on these things. I'll takes his words for it - 'independent allies'.

On the basis that the Houthis seem to be freethinkers , why have they decided to attack ships?
And a Yemen is absolutely dirt poor with many of its inhabitants starving after being bombed by their own kin in Saudi, who is funding the Houthis - Iran, Russia or China?

[Count Steer]

On the basis that the Houthis seem to be freethinkers , why have they decided to attack ships?
And a Yemen is absolutely dirt poor with many of its inhabitants starving after being bombed by their own kin in Saudi, who is funding the Houthis - Iran, Russia or China?

Because they're allies of Iran/Hamas/Hezbollah and have some aims in common, but it doesn't make them Iranian 'proxies' (it's a convenient label for some but it's not really correct).

Provision of funding, training, weapons etc doesn't automatically make anyone a proxy, otherwise Ukraine would be called one...I don't think they'd appreciate it.

'Proxy' and 'Client State' are terms that frequently get used and abused.

A reasonably thoughtful piece here.

https://theconversation.com/yemens-hout ... ran-123708

[irie]

Provision of funding, training, weapons etc doesn't automatically make anyone a proxy, otherwise Ukraine would be called one...I don't think they'd appreciate it.

Doesn't automatically make anyone a proxy, and I don't think that your craftily inserted Ukraine strawman has anything anything to do with it. But perhaps consideration of the facts rather than relying on what a certain Frank Gardner happens to believe would be beneficial? If you don't want to use the word proxy perhaps you would find the word surrogate more acceptable?

[ZRX61]

Who were the UK journalists who leaked news of the retaliatory attacks two hours before they happened?

[JackyJoll]

Who were the UK journalists who leaked news of the retaliatory attacks two hours before they happened?

It’s important to get your retaliation in first.

[Cousin Jack]

The problem, of course, is that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran and its other proxies justify what they do as being a war of "liberation". So from their point of view 'right' is on their side, as does Israel also believe that it has 'right' on its side.

So did Hitler. He was wrong, Israel is wrong, and so is Hamas.

[irie]

The problem, of course, is that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran and its other proxies justify what they do as being a war of "liberation". So from their point of view 'right' is on their side, as does Israel also believe that it has 'right' on its side.

So did Hitler. He was wrong, Israel is wrong, and so is Hamas.

The forces of Kernow in which everything is black and white should be brought to bear.

Screenshot_20240113_085647_Chrome~2.jpg (9.13 KiB) Viewed 360 times

[Mr Moofo]

On the basis that the Houthis seem to be freethinkers , why have they decided to attack ships?
And a Yemen is absolutely dirt poor with many of its inhabitants starving after being bombed by their own kin in Saudi, who is funding the Houthis - Iran, Russia or China?

Because they're allies of Iran/Hamas/Hezbollah and have some aims in common, but it doesn't make them Iranian 'proxies' (it's a convenient label for some but it's not really correct).

Provision of funding, training, weapons etc doesn't automatically make anyone a proxy, otherwise Ukraine would be called one...I don't think they'd appreciate it.

'Proxy' and 'Client State' are terms that frequently get used and abused.

A reasonably thoughtful piece here.

https://theconversation.com/yemens-hout ... ran-123708

Thanks , and signed up
They are not simply proxies - but they are. very useful agent provocateur for Iran.

[demographic]

This ones long, but she makes some very good points, one about half the population of Palestine being children and that half the people killed hage been children.
Sbe mentions about international law and Israel's supposed right to self defence not being so legal as theyre occupying another country.
She points out the many infractions of international law that Israel has been doing for decades.

Hundreds of people killed in a refugee camp to take out one single supposed Hamas operative.
Hamas is often calling out for genocide, however Israel is actually doing genocide.
The Palestinians have nowhere to go, the Israelis have dropped over 200 number 2000 Lb bombs onto a highly populated area with 50 % children.

[demographic]

And as the Israelis have been casting doubt on the ID of the Palestinans killed they started putting them online, this is the list (showing their age as well) of the people killed as of the 29th of Oct.

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/this-is- ... d-in-gaza/

[Mr Moofo]

Have Hamas freed any hostages yet?
That would certainly help reduce the death toll