mangocrazy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:52 am
I'd say it's more likely than it was prior to October 7th. When faced with genocide on the scale Israel is threatening, I'd say a two-state solution could sound quite appealing.
What's your solution, then?
A two state solution sounds appealing, but as said above is currently not feasible.
No. it's just that it doesn't appeal to you.
irie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:37 pm
Iran and its proxies are fighting to defeat Israel thereby ensuring that it ceases to exist. On the other hand, Israel is fighting to avoid defeat which would mean certain destruction of the state of Israel.
Are we actually watching the same conflict? It's not even a war - a war needs two sides with some kind of military equivalence. The Palestinians have no army, no air force, no navy and have to take whatever Israel throws at them with no realistic ability to fight back. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. "Iran and its proxies" aren't actually lifting a finger in support of the Palestinians, the waging of war is totally one-sided. And poor defenceless Israel "is fighting to avoid defeat which would mean certain destruction of the state of Israel" - don't make me laugh. They are pursuing genocide.
irie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:37 pm
I see no grounds for sharing your optimism. As things stand, it is a fight to the death between the two protagonists.
Who said I was optimistic? The only deaths are those of Palestinian men, women and children. There is no "fight to the death between the two protagonists", it's entirely one-sided slaughter.
And again I ask the question - what's your solution, then?
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If Hamas can’t and isn’t fighting anyone, who is shooting at the IDF and why are there hostages in Gaza?
And where did they get those hostages? I do hope it wasn’t through any sort of foul play!
You say “genocide” a lot, but it’s patently not genocide. There’s more to genocide than just a lot of deaths.
Hamas is fighting an invading army that has crushing superiority in every facet of its military capability. They are fighting back against invasion - in no way are they taking the fight to Israel. Israel wants to crush Hamas and the Palestinian people and wipe Palestine clean of them. If that isn't genocide I don't know what is.
That seems quite some twisted logic. Israel are going in heavy handed but at least at one point they were the ones fighting back against the Palestinian invasion, at what point did you start ignoring that to imply Israel is the aggressor?
I didn't imply that 'Israel started it' in the current conflict. Hamas kickstarted the current conflict on Oct 7th, although Israel had been 'kettling' Hamas and the Palestinians for years (decades,even). Israel's current military incursions into Palestinian held territory goes far beyond what one could realistically term reprisals. Netanyahu has indicated that there will be no let up in Israel's push to wipe out Hamas (with massive collateral civilian damage).
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:34 pm
I didn't imply that 'Israel started it' in the current conflict. Hamas kickstarted the current conflict on Oct 7th, although Israel had been 'kettling' Hamas and the Palestinians for years (decades,even). Israel's current military incursions into Palestinian held territory goes far beyond what one could realistically term reprisals. Netanyahu has indicated that there will be no let up in Israel's push to wipe out Hamas (with massive collateral civilian damage).
So what's the solution?
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:34 pm
I didn't imply that 'Israel started it' in the current conflict. Hamas kickstarted the current conflict on Oct 7th, although Israel had been 'kettling' Hamas and the Palestinians for years (decades,even). Israel's current military incursions into Palestinian held territory goes far beyond what one could realistically term reprisals. Netanyahu has indicated that there will be no let up in Israel's push to wipe out Hamas (with massive collateral civilian damage).
So what's the solution?
Dunno mate, what's yours? (I know, I know...a pint....the old ones etc...).
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:34 pm
I didn't imply that 'Israel started it' in the current conflict. Hamas kickstarted the current conflict on Oct 7th, although Israel had been 'kettling' Hamas and the Palestinians for years (decades,even). Israel's current military incursions into Palestinian held territory goes far beyond what one could realistically term reprisals. Netanyahu has indicated that there will be no let up in Israel's push to wipe out Hamas (with massive collateral civilian damage).
So what's the solution?
How about (for the 3rd time of asking) you tell us your solution?
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:34 pm
I didn't imply that 'Israel started it' in the current conflict. Hamas kickstarted the current conflict on Oct 7th, although Israel had been 'kettling' Hamas and the Palestinians for years (decades,even). Israel's current military incursions into Palestinian held territory goes far beyond what one could realistically term reprisals. Netanyahu has indicated that there will be no let up in Israel's push to wipe out Hamas (with massive collateral civilian damage).
So what's the solution?
Dunno mate, what's yours? (I know, I know...a pint....the old ones etc...).
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"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
Count Steer wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:37 pm
Have we done the Babylonian Exile and reformed Assyria yet?
The first couple of albums were good but they lost their way when the bassist left.
That’s the official story.
The word among those in the know is they got an advance for the third album (Feet of Clay) and spent three years high on toad-licking, trying to find a word that rhymed with Nebuchadnezzar.
Bit of a mismatch, terrorists killing a few hundreds versus a modern army intent on genocide.
Unless Israel can literally wipe out the Palestinians (and all their supporters and sypathisers) completely they are just creating a new generation of terrorist to take up the fight in a decade or so.
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:21 pm
Bit of a mismatch, terrorists killing a few hundreds versus a modern army intent on genocide.
Unless Israel can literally wipe out the Palestinians (and all their supporters and sypathisers) completely they are just creating a new generation of terrorist to take up the fight in a decade or so.
Don't swallow that.
During construction of the Gaza tunnels hundreds of thousands of cubic metres of earth/debris must have been removed and trucked through the streets of Gaza. The Gaza population must have seen this happening and either been complicit or more likely keeping their heads down for fear of reprisals by Hamas. Very much like the German population during WW2 with the Nazi party.
Suspect there's not much love lost for Hamas which has brought this calamity upon the population of Gaza.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:21 pm
Bit of a mismatch, terrorists killing a few hundreds versus a modern army intent on genocide.
Unless Israel can literally wipe out the Palestinians (and all their supporters and sypathisers) completely they are just creating a new generation of terrorist to take up the fight in a decade or so.
Don't swallow that.
During construction of the Gaza tunnels hundreds of thousands of cubic metres of earth/debris must have been removed and trucked through the streets of Gaza. The Gaza population must have seen this happening and either been complicit or more likely keeping their heads down for fear of reprisals by Hamas. Very much like the German population during WW2 with the Nazi party.
Suspect there's not much love lost for Hamas which has brought this calamity upon the population of Gaza.
You are thinking UK style democracy. The ME doesn't work like that, you vote for the strong guy. Hammas would probably win an election in Gazza tomorrow.
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:21 pm
Bit of a mismatch, terrorists killing a few hundreds versus a modern army intent on genocide.
Unless Israel can literally wipe out the Palestinians (and all their supporters and sypathisers) completely they are just creating a new generation of terrorist to take up the fight in a decade or so.
Don't swallow that.
During construction of the Gaza tunnels hundreds of thousands of cubic metres of earth/debris must have been removed and trucked through the streets of Gaza. The Gaza population must have seen this happening and either been complicit or more likely keeping their heads down for fear of reprisals by Hamas. Very much like the German population during WW2 with the Nazi party.
Suspect there's not much love lost for Hamas which has brought this calamity upon the population of Gaza.
You are thinking UK style democracy. The ME doesn't work like that, you vote for the strong guy. Hammas would probably win an election in Gazza tomorrow.
By which convoluted logic did you come to the conclusion that I am "thinking UK style democracy"? Perhaps this is the result of New Year's Eve 'lubrication'
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
