Count Steer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:51 pm
Although, rumour has it my favourite was 'bootlegged' with the cooperation of the band ('Electrif Lycanthrope' - Little Feat).
I heard the same rumour, from a variety of sources. And the Internets reckon it was recorded 'live' in Ultrasonic Studios, Hampstead, New York on Sept. 19, 1974 and broadcast live on WLIR FM. And it's been available as FLACs, entirely legally, from Archive.org, since 2005.
Count Steer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:51 pm
Although, rumour has it my favourite was 'bootlegged' with the cooperation of the band ('Electrif Lycanthrope' - Little Feat).
I heard the same rumour, from a variety of sources. And the Internets reckon it was recorded 'live' in Ultrasonic Studios, Hampstead, New York on Sept. 19, 1974 and broadcast live on WLIR FM. And it's been available as FLACs, entirely legally, from Archive.org, since 2005.
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:44 pm
This was combined with an insistance that the 3db points for audio amps should be in the 200 kHz region. I have yet to meet anyone who can hear 200 kHz.
My physics is rusty but isn't there something about frequencies beyond our lugs are involved in harmonics/resonances or some such with the frequencies we can hear?
Dunno, I suspect an amp that clipped everything outside the typical hearing range might sound odd?
I was told that products like speakers with a range from 10-50000 was just marketing crap as the human ear can’t hear over 20k or something like that? Where’s rodbargee when you need him? He’s a sound engineer I believe?
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:44 pm
This was combined with an insistance that the 3db points for audio amps should be in the 200 kHz region. I have yet to meet anyone who can hear 200 kHz.
My physics is rusty but isn't there something about frequencies beyond our lugs are involved in harmonics/resonances or some such with the frequencies we can hear?
Dunno, I suspect an amp that clipped everything outside the typical hearing range might sound odd?
I was told that products like speakers with a range from 10-50000 was just marketing crap as the human ear can’t hear over 20k or something like that? Where’s rodbargee when you need him? He’s a sound engineer I believe?
S'my point. Harmonics/resonances. Oi! @rodbargee tell us the facts.
(I know a sound engineer, but he did Match of the Day. I sort of knew one that did music but he died in 1999* )
Harmonics are interesting, they can ONLY affect
you if your ears can hear them, so if you cannot hear above 20k anything above that then you cannot hear them.
I think the argument was they can affect the lower frequencies you can hear by subtly altering the balance of frequencies, so that you can hear a difference. That is probably true, but it can only do that by giving a non-level response up to 20k, ie the 3dB points* cannot be up at 200kHz, they must be below 20kHz.
*The point is your ears can only hear a 3dB change, a 1dB change is indetectable.
If you really want to muck around and adjust the sound you can buy kit that boosts or cuts specific bands you can hear, but the purists despised such gadgets.
A mate of mine had a graphic equaliser and was forever jumping up and down to tweak the frequencies. In the end we all got so pissed off with it that we told him to set everything flat and stop twatting about. It sounded much better with everything flat and sounded better still with the damn thing completely disconnected.
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:38 pm
Harmonics are interesting, they can ONLY affect
you if your ears can hear them, so if you cannot hear above 20k anything above that then you cannot hear them.
Yes, I get that but, as I said, I don't know enough about harmonics and resonances etc to know if they can affect the frequencies that we can hear. Which is why I put the flag out to rodbargee. We may as well call in the experts if we have them.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:44 pm
A mate of mine had a graphic equaliser and was forever jumping up and down to tweak the frequencies. In the end we all got so pissed off with it that we told him to set everything flat and stop twatting about. It sounded much better with everything flat and sounded better still with the damn thing completely disconnected.
Probably because the producers and sound engineers already twatted about with the frequencies with far greater skill
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:38 pm
Harmonics are interesting, they can ONLY affect
you if your ears can hear them, so if you cannot hear above 20k anything above that then you cannot hear them.
Yes, I get that but, as I said, I don't know enough about harmonics and resonances etc to know if they can affect the frequencies that we can hear. Which is why I put the flag out to rodbargee. We may as well call in the experts if we have them.
They can.
Two frequencies can/do add together* and they'll make a third frequency. Ask anyone who's manually tuned a guitar.
So it's perfectly possible for two inaudible frequencies to add up and also make a third one you can hear. Or even one you can't and one you can adding up to make a third...or two you can adding up to make one you can't...there's probably a matrix you can draw
Whether or not that shows up in any music...no idea
*And to stay on the music theme, this effect is also the source of refractive indices and the root cause of the effect shown on DSOTM
You can only hear what you can hear. It may be a beat frequency between inaudible frequencies, but if it is above your audible range it might as well not exist. And if is in your audible range the definition of a flat response (+ or - 3dB) should mean that 0 -20kHz is just as good as 0-200kHz.
So boasting about a 'flat response' way beyond 20kHz is pointless.
There is a widespread, and in my opinion unjustified, assumption that because you can model or analyze physical functions as sinusoidal terms it means that all sound waves are actually sinusoidal. In fact when you, for example, clap your hands, a shock wave is produced that is uniquely recognizable as a live sound but cannot necessarily be modelled digitally without using components at far higher frequencies than could be heard as a stand-alone sine wave.
If seen from an evolutionary standpoint the human species depended on acute senses to avoid predators and hunt prey. So sensitivity to the sounds of snapping twigs or rustling undergrowth is built in to our auditory system. Hearing pure sinusoidal pressure waves is only one part of that capability.
Single impulse percussive sounds are a sum of an infinite series of sin waves. So much so they're used to excite all the modes in an object.
I.e. give it a whack and hear it ring
Standard test for any kind of vibration or acoustic analysis.
So yeah, it's not actually possible to digitise a percussive sound in terms of sin waves unless you have a system which can deal with an infinite number of waves. Which no practical system can. S'why drums are often the acid test for HiFi.
My physics is rusty but isn't there something about frequencies beyond our lugs are involved in harmonics/resonances or some such with the frequencies we can hear?
Dunno, I suspect an amp that clipped everything outside the typical hearing range might sound odd?
I was told that products like speakers with a range from 10-50000 was just marketing crap as the human ear can’t hear over 20k or something like that? Where’s rodbargee when you need him? He’s a sound engineer I believe?
S'my point. Harmonics/resonances. Oi! @rodbargee tell us the facts.
(I know a sound engineer, but he did Match of the Day. I sort of knew one that did music but he died in 1999* )
anything much over 20KHZ is inaudible to most, the very young can hear stuff up there but most people in the street not so much, though sticking a brick wall filter at 20 khz might effect the pleasent effects of some harmonics up in that region. We had an assistant who while sitting next to me remarked "arn't you going to do something about that whistle" the only way i could find it was by putting the channel through a spectrum analiser and there it wa,s a pureish tone around 22KHZ my answer was to the assistant that he needed to go to a few Motorhead concerts so he could be normal like the rest of us, I think You're into golden ears territory above 20KHz and 200KHZ is radio rentals territory.
Extremes of bass similar, anything sub 20HZ is more of a feeling, My thoughts are if your recording stuff that might have components up or down there record them as is, and anything that gets through fair enough, though in reality its not going to be much, filter later as required. I'm lucky to hear 15KHZ these day and then only by moving my head so you get the phase shift as it goes round your lugs (pinner)
I sort of knew one that did music but he died in 1999* 
)
