Vote!

[Taipan]

So being nice to the top 10% of earners in the UK might be prudent, unless you want the house of cards to fall in on you.

Top 10% is anyone over about 60k before tax, is it not?

Given that every man and his dog on this forum is an overpaid IT wanker, we're keeping the country afloat. Well done us.

Excuse me! I'm an underpaid IT wanked iffin you dont mind!

[Cousin Jack]

I've heard many time's we need foreign workers to fill the vacancies mainly in our most undesirable jobs like care and hospitality but amongst others, Legal, illegal, who cares.

So when a country like England with its broken infrastructure and a high population density, still needs foreign workers something has gone seriously wrong. On one hand we're full, on the other we ain't.

Has our economy outgrown its country.

No our workers have become shirkers. Some choose benefits, some claim sickness for stuff we would soldier on with, and those that do work all want to retire at 50 and live to 100.

[Dodgy69]

Possibly, I get the sickness bit definitely but I'm not convinced folk choose benefits, it ain't much £££. Not sure about 50 yo retiring either.

Personally, i don't know anyone who's out of work, who wants work. My lad is 24 and all his friends work.

Think it's simply, no one wants the shit jobs any more. The fallout of progress sort of thing.

[irie]

All I'm interested in seeing is all levels of wealth paying their due amount. For anyone on PAYE there's precious little scope to escape HMRC's dragnet, but that's not the case for higher earners (and I'm talking £500k plus here) who can structure their tax affairs using offshore trust funds and the like. I'm also looking at you Amazon, Google, Apple and any company that funnels UK earnings into a holding company in Lichtenstein, Turks & Caicos etc. and thereby avoids paying UK taxes. If everyone actually paid the taxes they should be paying the UK Treasury would have an embarassment of riches.

"Should"

Please define what "should" means.

Thanks.

[mangocrazy]

All I'm interested in seeing is all levels of wealth paying their due amount. For anyone on PAYE there's precious little scope to escape HMRC's dragnet, but that's not the case for higher earners (and I'm talking £500k plus here) who can structure their tax affairs using offshore trust funds and the like. I'm also looking at you Amazon, Google, Apple and any company that funnels UK earnings into a holding company in Lichtenstein, Turks & Caicos etc. and thereby avoids paying UK taxes. If everyone actually paid the taxes they should be paying the UK Treasury would have an embarassment of riches.

"Should"

Please define what "should" means.

Thanks.

If everyone actually paid the taxes they were required by law to be paying the UK Treasury would have an embarassment of riches.

[irie]

All I'm interested in seeing is all levels of wealth paying their due amount. For anyone on PAYE there's precious little scope to escape HMRC's dragnet, but that's not the case for higher earners (and I'm talking £500k plus here) who can structure their tax affairs using offshore trust funds and the like. I'm also looking at you Amazon, Google, Apple and any company that funnels UK earnings into a holding company in Lichtenstein, Turks & Caicos etc. and thereby avoids paying UK taxes. If everyone actually paid the taxes they should be paying the UK Treasury would have an embarassment of riches.

"Should"

Please define what "should" means.

Thanks.

If everyone actually paid the taxes they were required by law to be paying the UK Treasury would have an embarassment of riches.

Those "who can structure their tax affairs using offshore trust funds and the like ... and thereby avoids paying UK taxes." are acting lawfully.

hth

[mangocrazy]

"Should"

Please define what "should" means.

Thanks.

If everyone actually paid the taxes they were required by law to be paying the UK Treasury would have an embarassment of riches.

Those "who can structure their tax affairs using offshore trust funds and the like ... and thereby avoids paying UK taxes." are acting lawfully.

hth

They are acting on the edge of legality; it's a grey area (as is so often the case with UK tax law). A smart government (and one whose members weren't also taking advantage of these grey areas) would move to shut down those loopholes.

hth

[Yambo]

Those "who can structure their tax affairs using offshore trust funds and the like ... and thereby avoids paying UK taxes." are acting lawfully.

hth

And the government, our elected representatives (all of them, ad infinitum ) have set up the system to allow these lawful actions.

Closing loopholes is not the job of the HMRC.

[demographic]

So they've already left? If they're corporate they're easily replaced, if they're running their own business someone will step into the space they've left. Trust me, their tax money will be replaced by someone else, they won't be missed.

My only tie to the UK is my pension and investments, as long that is safe I don't care too much what goes on there.

They're just rich and decided not to live in the UK any more, because they have the choice.

If you're talking about companies then 'trust me', they don't just get replaced, go to Hindley-Green and show me the company that replaced Ingersoll-Rand after (IIRC) over a hundred years and generations of families working there. That was a fairly small scale local thing, but whole families lost jobs.

If companies leave the UK then they don't necessarily get replaced like it's a conveyor belt, sometimes it leaves a great big hole.

I thought Ingersoll Rand was an American company anyway?
When did they close the UK division down and why did they do it?

[Pirahna]

I've been looking for news stories about Ingersoll Rand, there's stuff from 1981, 2003 and 2010. The most I can see is 160 job losses from a town in Lancashire.

[demographic]

As far as I can work out its a new York company that moved some of their processes...erm...abroad. The bastards.

To be fair they'll likely have bought a Lancashire company out before changing the sign above the door, running it for a bit then eventually closing the doors in about 2020 or so?

Looks like the main company just pulled out of the UK not long after some measures meant other areas were more competitive.

[Pirahna]

I've been looking for news stories about Ingersoll Rand, there's stuff from 1981, 2003 and 2010. The most I can see is 160 job losses from a town in Lancashire.

I'll tell you what I know.
Ingersoll-Rand had a factory and European head offices in HIndley-Green in Lancashire, they ran their MENA operations from there, so head office staff, warehouse, factory, tech development, etc.

It had been there for many decades, I'm sure I was told a hundred years but I can't be sure on that, but what I am sure of is an acquaintance crying when she told me that her husband, son and herself were going to lose their jobs, her husband had started as an apprentice over thirty years ago.

It was one of the main employers of that small town and it was pretty devastating when they split their operations and flitted abroad, the factory went to Czech, the warehouse to Belgium, the head office to Ireland, etc.
As far as I know it was various reasons, tax breaks, cheaper labour abroad, etc.

That's the potted history that I know and I only used it as example of a company that left the UK and no one was there to fill the gap, like you assured me there would be, there was no queue of companies to fill the hole it left.

As far I can tell they made/make mainly pumps. There was no shortage of pumps after they left the UK, their departure left no gap to fill, you could even buy Ingersoll Rand stuff after they left. Yes it affected a few locals but in the scheme of things it wasn't noticed.

[MyLittleStudPony]

It may have been disastrous for business and increased immigration but we've still got the blue passports and all the fish.

Well, the blue passports at least.

Keep it Brexity, nice and Brexity.

[demographic]

So, they moved into continental Europe, various countries after something in the UK increased their operating costs.
Left Lancashire in about 2020.

So, what made their operations in the UK more difficult?

[mboy]

Just listened to this as an audiobook the other day...



To be honest, it should be a mandatory text in the UK before being allowed to vote in the upcoming general election quite frankly! Written in a deeply reflective and unbiased manor, O'Brien picks apart the perfect (shit)storm that allowed the Uk to degenerate to where it is now over the lastdecade or so of government...

I like O'Brien anyway, as far from being a lefty loony or champagne socialist that many in our current government would label him as, he's a pretty old school centrist (much like myself) that seems to feel politically quite homeless right now (I know the feeling)... He doesn't hold back with his criticisms of Labour, and in particular Jeremy Corbyn, either...

I was worried it might heighten my political induced anxiety that has at times really affected me since the Brexit vote back in 2016, but far from it, it helped me to understand the situation we are in much better, and that arguably that set of circumstances is unlikely to ever happen again even just by chance, but certainly we shouldn't just sleepwalk into them as a country like we have done thus...

Well worth a read/listen...

[Bigjawa]

Just listened to this as an audiobook the other day...



To be honest, it should be a mandatory text in the UK before being allowed to vote in the upcoming general election quite frankly! Written in a deeply reflective and unbiased manor, O'Brien picks apart the perfect (shit)storm that allowed the Uk to degenerate to where it is now over the lastdecade or so of government...

I like O'Brien anyway, as far from being a lefty loony or champagne socialist that many in our current government would label him as, he's a pretty old school centrist (much like myself) that seems to feel politically quite homeless right now (I know the feeling)... He doesn't hold back with his criticisms of Labour, and in particular Jeremy Corbyn, either...

I was worried it might heighten my political induced anxiety that has at times really affected me since the Brexit vote back in 2016, but far from it, it helped me to understand the situation we are in much better, and that arguably that set of circumstances is unlikely to ever happen again even just by chance, but certainly we shouldn't just sleepwalk into them as a country like we have done thus...

Well worth a read/listen...

He always comes across as a bit of a microphone warrior, seems very sneery to people who don't agree with him. I listen to the show but when he starts getting on like a school bully, I switch off.

[mboy]

He always comes across as a bit of a microphone warrior, seems very sneery to people who don't agree with him. I listen to the show but when he starts getting on like a school bully, I switch off.

The book is well written... More reflective, less reactionary, but I know what you mean...

[Taipan]

[Pirahna]

You do know who Reform UK are?

[Count Steer]

You do know who Reform UK are?

Blokes who don't even know how to clean their own specs?