New BSB Superstock champ!!

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Bustaspoke
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New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Bustaspoke »

Proper :shock: when I read this

! Statement !Superstock Championship 2023
It is with our up most regret we must write this, as we ended the 2023 championship with 8 wins, 5 lap records and leading 118 laps of the whole championship we were taken to Tribunal by an opposing team after the final round on the grounds of our front bake master cylinder.
After over a month of trying to prove with the official Honda Brochure, numerous official Honda Websites and an official Statement as witness by Brembo and inspection stating our master cylinder is exactly the same both internally and externally with no performance enhancement, We feel we have been made an example of by disqualifying us from the final round of the Superstock Championship over a 6mm bracket bolt hole, this in turn has meant we have had to forfeit the championship in 2023.
We are absolutely devastated as a team who have worked impeccable all year and Dan Linfoot has ridden as a true champion all year, these results do not lie, all our talking was done on track and unfortunately an opposing team that cannot achieve what we have had to win off track.
Everyone who knows us as a team will know what we have done and the effort and money we have put in to take our team to this level and the results reflect these efforts, unfortunately this 6mm bracket bolt hole technicality has cost the team dearly and words cannot describe how devastated we are.
We as a team know we are true champions but on paper this has to say different, Racing is not just about result, as a small family team it was a driven passion for not just our team but our followers, family, friends and anyone who really know us as a team knows us as real champions and the results always followed our passion.
We would like to sincerely thank everyone who have supported us throughout our journey and what we have achieved in two years of been in the BSB paddock and this sport can take your emotions to a different level, the heart and passion that goes into winning is unrivalled and we thank all our sponsors, staff and everyone who has made this season so special !
Sincerely Ian Wright (Optimum Bikes Racing)
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mangocrazy
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by mangocrazy »

That is quite unbelievable. Rules being used in a way in which they were surely never intended to be. Which team benefitted from this, incidentally?
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Yorick
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Yorick »

They fitted illegal parts. Don't see a problem.
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weeksy
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by weeksy »

Yorick wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:48 pm They fitted illegal parts. Don't see a problem.
Well in their opinion and it seems Hondas, they never.
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by KungFooBob »

What made the other team think the parts weren't legal?

A tip off?
A guess?

Seems to me that there must be more to this, especially as the manufacturer says it's a kosher part.
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Yorick
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Yorick »

weeksy wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:55 pm
Yorick wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:48 pm They fitted illegal parts. Don't see a problem.
Well in their opinion and it seems Hondas, they never.
They said their bits were the same as standard. But not standard.
The rules are there to stop things being changed.
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mangocrazy
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by mangocrazy »

If what is stated in the first post is true, it's the degree of pettiness involved that's distasteful. The protesting team's objection was to a 6mm hole in an otherwise standard bracket (or so it would seem). Can this really constitute a performance advantage?
There is no cloud, just somebody else's computer.
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Yorick
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Yorick »

Why did they change it in the first place?

There must have been a reason. Performance gain obviously.

Stock means stock. No changes.

I raced proddy racing and we knew the rules.

Imagine if all the teams changed standard for something 'equal '.
Would be right carnage.

Their own stupid fault
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mangocrazy
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by mangocrazy »

Sounds like a clusterfuck from start to finish...

Findings – Post-race technical control processes
The Tribunal found, from the statements received and from its further enquiries, that there had been a
number of significant weaknesses in the post-race technical control processes following the Pirelli
National Superstock Championship race (2):

1. Access to individual motorcycles in parc ferme was not restricted to authorised officials (and necessary
team personnel); this particularly applied to those machines in parc ferme adjacent to the winners’
podium.

2. Poor communication which allowed a motorcycle (#4) to be released from parc ferme, when
investigations into a possible breach of its eligibility were still ongoing.

3. The post-race timelines were a cause for concern. The race result was approved at 14.08 hrs. A protest
was received at 15.38 hrs and this was rejected by Race Direction on the grounds that it was “out of time”
(by 90 minutes) and was not accompanied by the appropriate fee; an Appeal (to the Stewards) against
that decision, with the appropriate fee, was received at 17.29 hrs and subsequently withdrawn at 18.05
hrs.

4. The motorcycle in question had been released from parc ferme before the Protest had been received,
hence rendering questionable, both (a) any meaningful subsequent technical examination and (b) the
referral of this issue to this Tribunal.

5. As part of the Tribunal process, the team of #4 was requested to present the motorcycle for re-
inspection at Donington Park on 31 st October, with the same front brake master cylinder as at Brands
Hatch on 15 th October; the machine was presented at Donington with a different front brake master
cylinder (identified by a different casting number).

6. There were unfortunate gaps in the levels of detailed understanding of the MCRCB’s Protest and
Appeal regulations.

7. There was an absence of a specialist Superstock technical official, able to be consulted by and to liaise
with Teams at this event and throughout the season.
The Tribunal will be writing to the MCRCB and MSVR, recommending improvements to address the
above matters, in time for the start of the 2024 season.

Findings – Breach of class technical regulations

The Tribunal convened on Thursday 23 rd November by electronic meeting, and has decided that #4 Dan
Linfoot (Optimum Bikes Honda) should be excluded from the results of the Pirelli National Superstock
races at Brands Hatch on 14 th & 15th October (Article B 4.5.1.2).

The Tribunal has based its decision on reports received from three independent technical consultants
that the front brake master cylinder on the motorcycle of #4 was not as originally produced by the
manufacturers for the homologated machine - see Article 5.2.7.10.7 of the MCRCB Sporting Code (2023),
and the failure of the team of #4 to prove otherwise. The Tribunal acknowledges that the decision was
arrived at despite a consensus that the use of the component was not likely to be performance-
enhancing, and despite the failure of the post-race technical control procedures and the absence of an
appropriate protest against the eligibility of the motorcycle (see above).


There is no right of appeal against this decision - see Article A6 a) of the MCRCB Sporting Code (2023).
There is no cloud, just somebody else's computer.
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Bustaspoke »

That report makes bad reading for all involved in the administration of the rules for the Superstock class. :wtf:
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Yorick
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Yorick »

You must use the original master cylinder.

Did you change the standard master cylinder?

Yes.

Disqualified.
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Yorick
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Yorick »

Bustaspoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:28 pm That report makes bad reading for all involved in the administration of the rules for the Superstock class. :wtf:
I've been involved in bike racing on and off for 40 years.
It's frantic sometimes as everybody is a tight time schedule.

Imagine F1 rules when hundreds of millions are involved.
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mangocrazy
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by mangocrazy »

Yorick wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:11 pm Why did they change it in the first place?

There must have been a reason. Performance gain obviously.

Stock means stock. No changes.

I raced proddy racing and we knew the rules.

Imagine if all the teams changed standard for something 'equal '.
Would be right carnage.

Their own stupid fault
If you can read the following from that high horse of yours... :D
Yorick wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:52 pm
mangocrazy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:23 pm
Yorick wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:50 pm I was running 310 main jets when racing. Needed more wind
You'd have been running either an open airbox or no airbox, I guess. And making closer to 60 bhp, as well. My LC is essentially standard.
Yup. We all cheated. We only worried when somebody cheated better than us :D
There is no cloud, just somebody else's computer.
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Yorick
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Yorick »

mangocrazy wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:37 pm
Yorick wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:11 pm Why did they change it in the first place?

There must have been a reason. Performance gain obviously.

Stock means stock. No changes.

I raced proddy racing and we knew the rules.

Imagine if all the teams changed standard for something 'equal '.
Would be right carnage.

Their own stupid fault
If you can read the following from that high horse of yours... :D
Yorick wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:52 pm
mangocrazy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:23 pm
You'd have been running either an open airbox or no airbox, I guess. And making closer to 60 bhp, as well. My LC is essentially standard.
Yup. We all cheated. We only worried when somebody cheated better than us :D
Yeah. We were kids. No big prizes.

When we were caught we didn't moan.

If I was doing the BSB stuff, we wouldn't dare cheat.
Bustaspoke
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Bustaspoke »

Yorick wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:36 pm
I've been involved in bike racing on and off for 40 years.
It's frantic sometimes as everybody is a tight time schedule.
I always thought in order to object to another team or rider that you had to pay a certain fee in a very short time period & if that wasn't done you couldn't protest & once the bike was out of Parc Ferme all protests are null & void?
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Yorick »

Bustaspoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:47 pm
Yorick wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:36 pm
I've been involved in bike racing on and off for 40 years.
It's frantic sometimes as everybody is a tight time schedule.
I always thought in order to object to another team or rider that you had to pay a certain fee in a very short time period & if that wasn't done you couldn't protest & once the bike was out of Parc Ferme all protests are null & void?
The rules at the top are very complex.
Any technical sport, motorsport, boats, aircraft, yachting etc, the teams emply very expensive lawyers to look through the rule books for any loopholes and ways to evade capture and punishment.

Apart from being money chasing sports, it's a technical nightmare.
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Skub »

From a purely spectating point of view,these kind of decisions made long after the fact will come across as nitpicking and petty and they will damage the sport.
If bike racing results can be changed so long after the season has ended,then people have no real idea if what they are watching is as they see. Linfoot wins the championship,then weeks later,oh wait,he didn't. That's just crap.

We had a similar debacle at the NW200 when the rulemongers decided carbon wheels were forbidden,even though the stock bike uses them and raced them at the TT ffs. The team weren't allowed to change the wheels,because then they wouldn't be stock. :wtf: End result,one of the best teams in BSB packs up and goes home. It's farcical.

If the sport becomes a rule fest,interest will wane and that's a fact.
"Be kind to past versions of yourself that didn't know what you know now."
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Yorick
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Yorick »

Skub wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:02 pm From a purely spectating point of view,these kind of decisions made long after the fact will come across as nitpicking and petty and they will damage the sport.
If bike racing results can be changed so long after the season has ended,then people have no real idea if what they are watching is as they see. Linfoot wins the championship,then weeks later,oh wait,he didn't. That's just crap.

We had a similar debacle at the NW200 when the rulemongers decided carbon wheels were forbidden,even though the stock bike uses them and raced them at the TT ffs. The team weren't allowed to change the wheels,because then they wouldn't be stock. :wtf: End result,one of the best teams in BSB packs up and goes home. It's farcical.

If the sport becomes a rule fest,interest will wane and that's a fact.
From the other side, someone in the team wants sacking.
Before spending £20k on posh wheels, they should have fired off an email to the A.C.U. or whoever asking if they were legal.

Bending the rules is OK, but you gotta guard your arse.

Everyone knows the rules and penalties.
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Noggin
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by Noggin »

Yorick wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:17 pm
Skub wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:02 pm From a purely spectating point of view,these kind of decisions made long after the fact will come across as nitpicking and petty and they will damage the sport.
If bike racing results can be changed so long after the season has ended,then people have no real idea if what they are watching is as they see. Linfoot wins the championship,then weeks later,oh wait,he didn't. That's just crap.

We had a similar debacle at the NW200 when the rulemongers decided carbon wheels were forbidden,even though the stock bike uses them and raced them at the TT ffs. The team weren't allowed to change the wheels,because then they wouldn't be stock. :wtf: End result,one of the best teams in BSB packs up and goes home. It's farcical.

If the sport becomes a rule fest,interest will wane and that's a fact.
From the other side, someone in the team wants sacking.
Before spending £20k on posh wheels, they should have fired off an email to the A.C.U. or whoever asking if they were legal.

Bending the rules is OK, but you gotta guard your arse.

Everyone knows the rules and penalties.
But, carbon wheels were stock. So why would anyone think they needed to check?
Life is for living. Buy the shoes. Eat the cake. Ride the bikes. Just, ride the bikes!! :bblonde:
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mangocrazy
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Re: New BSB Superstock champ!!

Post by mangocrazy »

Basically the organisers/rule makers placed the BMW race team in a Catch-22 situation. Whatever they did would fall foul of the rules. There should have been an alternative specified for any teams that had carbon wheels as stock fitment if the organisers were determined to outlaw carbon wheels..
There is no cloud, just somebody else's computer.