Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
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Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Exciting news! I heard a rumour that - wait for it - there may be a new edition of Motorcycle Roadcraft published this year.
If this rumour doesn’t give you a frisson of excitement, what will? In the words of Samuel Johnson: “When a rider is tired of Roadcraft, they are tired of life, for there is in Roadcraft all that motorcycling life can afford.”
I wonder what passé advice will Hendon shuffle out of the blue book. And what should be added?
If this rumour doesn’t give you a frisson of excitement, what will? In the words of Samuel Johnson: “When a rider is tired of Roadcraft, they are tired of life, for there is in Roadcraft all that motorcycling life can afford.”
I wonder what passé advice will Hendon shuffle out of the blue book. And what should be added?
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Is @The Spin Doctor a contributioner to revising the motorcycling bible?
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
He might tell you what's missing
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Has he got a lot of insight to add?
Recently, I was having a quick squiz through the blue book (triennial retest on the horizon). And it’s better than I remember.
Some of the golden nuggets are easy to miss (unless you’ve got good observation ). It has some good stuff about ye olde SMIDSY but only devotes a page or so to it! Yet we get an entire chapter about motorway riding; maybe that’s more important if you’re a bike cop routinely doing 150 mph on the motorway. It seems tricky – perhaps impossible – for any book to cover what’s what from IAM to police pursuit riding.
Do you think @The Spin Doctor would ever consider writing a book?
Recently, I was having a quick squiz through the blue book (triennial retest on the horizon). And it’s better than I remember.
Some of the golden nuggets are easy to miss (unless you’ve got good observation ). It has some good stuff about ye olde SMIDSY but only devotes a page or so to it! Yet we get an entire chapter about motorway riding; maybe that’s more important if you’re a bike cop routinely doing 150 mph on the motorway. It seems tricky – perhaps impossible – for any book to cover what’s what from IAM to police pursuit riding.
Do you think @The Spin Doctor would ever consider writing a book?
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Well done
'A' book? Where did you get a daft idea like?Do you think @The Spin Doctor would ever consider writing a book?
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Hence the IAM produce their own book and only recommend/require reading Roadcraft for National Observer and Masters.
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
True. I should have said He Who Cannot Be Named* not the IAM, shouldn’t I?
* RoSPA
* RoSPA
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
...which had some remarkably similar photo sequences to the 'Survival Skills' CDROM I used to sell at the time.
I love a bit of flattering imitation
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Updates for this new edition include a new overtaking chapter with separate sections on passing stationary vehicles, single stage overtakes, and multi-stage overtakes and new explanations of advanced concepts, such as limit points on left-hand bends.
Bit worrying that they still have to develop how they explain these things ...
I wonder whether the Surprise Horizon' makes an appearance (sic) as a limit point?
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
I am usually the one accused of over-complicating things but do you really need to distinguish between single and multi-stage overtakes?
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
I found it helpful to distinguish between single- and three-stage overtakes because it helped make my overtakes safer. Crucially, I was under instruction on the road. The book helped significantly, but nothing replaces on-road training.
More broadly, the 2020 edition seems a decent update of Motorcycle Roadcraft. But I wish the editor had condensed it!
While you could read the chapter about overtaking as formulaic, it's real value was helping me to get more out of my on-road training (just like Spin's course notes). And I've found 3-stage overtaking invaluable (and safer) on rural roads.Motorcycle Roadcraft 2020 wrote: The following pages describe two overtaking situations:
- a single-stage overtake where you're about to overtake immediately (approaching, overtaking and returning to your own side of the road) in one continuous movement
- a three-stage overtake where other hazards require you to take up a following position before you can safely overtake.
More broadly, the 2020 edition seems a decent update of Motorcycle Roadcraft. But I wish the editor had condensed it!
Last edited by Hot_Air on Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Someone on another (now defunct) board created a spreadsheet and did some sums. Gist of the results were that for the single (aka 'momentum' overtake, you have to commit earlier due to the speed differential.The Spin Doctor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:43 pm I am usually the one accused of over-complicating things but do you really need to distinguish between single and multi-stage overtakes?
And that's all the detail I remember:)
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Yes, I've more safety with 3-stage overtakes because I don't have to commit early. If the overtake isn't on, then I can usually return to my side of the road smoothly and undramatically.
But single-stage-overtakes require an early commitment, and on rural roads, this can be too early. And mid-overtake, calling it off can require more dramatic action.
But single-stage-overtakes require an early commitment, and on rural roads, this can be too early. And mid-overtake, calling it off can require more dramatic action.
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Why?
You can take as long as you like. It's the SPEED differential that leads to a commitment from a way back. If you use a modest passing speed (as opposed to the mad idea that you 'overtake as fast as possible' which is what commits you FROM way back) you not only move out nice and early which gives you a good view can bail out at the last moment if you have to - then you accelerate ONCE COMMITTED and not before.
If you overtake from close behind where your speed is matching the vehicle you're overtaking, you a) have to pop out to make your final visual check and b) you have to build speed to make the pass and that also takes time.
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
And if I remember right, there were some assumptions in there about the passing speed.Horse wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:43 pmSomeone on another (now defunct) board created a spreadsheet and did some sums. Gist of the results were that for the single (aka 'momentum' overtake, you have to commit earlier due to the speed differential.The Spin Doctor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:43 pm I am usually the one accused of over-complicating things but do you really need to distinguish between single and multi-stage overtakes?
And that's all the detail I remember:)
Memorably, I bailed out of a 'momentum' overtake almost alongside the vehicle I was lining up to pass when a Lamborghini came round the corner I was overtaking towards at a crazy speed - probably well over 100 mph. I only managed that because I wasn't carrying a big speed differential into the overtake.
The quicker you approach, the further back you're committed from. Had I been accelerating hard to get out into that overtake instead of carrying about 5 mph into it, I may not have got out of trouble.
In any case it all depends on how fast your bike accelerates. You'll struggle to accelerate with any rapidity from 40 to 60 on my 26hp CB250RS but having reached 50, it'll easily hold it on a momentum overtake.
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
Spin, I think we’re into semantics. What you’re describing as a single-stage overtake seems like a kind of multi-stage overtake. Perhaps it’s a hybrid But overtaking is tricky to discuss in words, and better conveyed on the road.
Either way, I find three-stage overtaking an extremely useful tool in my toolbox. (But not the only overtaking tool.)
Either way, I find three-stage overtaking an extremely useful tool in my toolbox. (But not the only overtaking tool.)
I never said anything about “close behind”, did I? Usually, I prefer to make a visual check from the offside. The world can look different from the offside, and I like to have this view before accelerating. Also, building speed happens in a blink on many bikes (including mine). On a slower bike, it’s a different world. And I’ll take account of time requirements in my forward planning. As with many things in life, timing is everythingThe Spin Doctor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:04 pm If you overtake from close behind where your speed is matching the vehicle you're overtaking, you a) have to pop out to make your final visual check and b) you have to build speed to make the pass and that also takes time.
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
I understand a 'three stage overtake' to be from 1 second back - that's how it was explained to me by a RoSPA examiner / police rider. See a possible opportunity, move up to the 'following position', move out to double check then go. So that 1 second position is pretty close to my mind, given that you should be aiming for a 3 second gap at 50 mph. And the closer you get the more it cuts your view. And it also cuts the view of YOU from the perspective of someone coming the other way - hence the 'pop-out' effect.Hot_Air wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:31 pm Spin, I think we’re into semantics. What you’re describing as a single-stage overtake seems like a kind of multi-stage overtake. Perhaps it’s a hybrid But overtaking is tricky to discuss in words, and better conveyed on the road.
Either way, I find three-stage overtaking an extremely useful tool in my toolbox. (But not the only overtaking tool.)
I never said anything about “close behind”, did I? Usually, I prefer to make a visual check from the offside. The world can look different from the offside, and I like to have this view before accelerating. Also, building speed happens in a blink on many bikes (including mine). On a slower bike, it’s a different world. And I’ll take account of time requirements in my forward planning. As with many things in life, timing is everythingThe Spin Doctor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:04 pm If you overtake from close behind where your speed is matching the vehicle you're overtaking, you a) have to pop out to make your final visual check and b) you have to build speed to make the pass and that also takes time.
Moving out early gives you the view you are looking for, and opens up the line of sight from the opposite direction.
The only reason that we have these debates is because of the obsession with 'progress' and getting overtakes in. Maybe it's because I spent 16 years riding around overtaking everything I could to shave a few seconds off the delivery time, and so squeeze another job into a day's work that I have a more restrained view of overtaking now. Even as a courier, my primary aim was never to get from A to B in a rush, but to ensure that I got to the delivery point - only that way would I be in a position to pick up the next job.
If you use longer straights for overtakes, you don't need to despatch them with any sort of acceleration, but simply carry the speed you already had into the pass. It doesn't work everywhere... but it works a damn site more often than riders who are in a rush seem to realise.
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
I agree about the emphasis on ‘progress’. It makes complete sense for the emergency services, but it’s less necessary for the rest of us. Although hasn’t the IAM reduced this emphasis?
Incidentally, counter-steering gets its own section in the latest edition of Motorcycle Roadcraft.
Incidentally, counter-steering gets its own section in the latest edition of Motorcycle Roadcraft.
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Re: Motorcycle Roadcraft - new edition?
If we didn't progress, it could lead to long tailbacks. A vehicle doing 10mph under speed limit needs to be overtaken for the sake of following traffic. Imo.
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