EICMA

[mboy]

It appears that Honda have launched a Kawasaki...

You mean the Duconda Streethornet IL4…?

Doesn’t have the mandatory dozen or more axe wounds for Kawasaki styling…

[Dodgy69]

I think the big manufacturers are running out of ideas. Tiny little changes here and there. It'd be a good design team who could come up with a completely different looking bike and make it sell well.

[Noggin]

Just found out that a mate is there (arrived last night). So, any bikes you want photos of ??!!

[The Spin Doctor]

Disconnect two plug leads?

Would probably work for me

[The Spin Doctor]

Since the writing is firmly on the wall for the end of the ICE, there's really not a lot of point in investing heavily into brand new designs... I suspect we'll see a lot more reworking of existing models using the 'platform' concept... I've lost count of how many bikes are now based around the crossplane 700 twin Yamaha engine - MT, Tracer, R7, and about half a dozen different Teneres... it's an attempt to flood every possible niche for that particular engine.

I think my only surprises are the return of the CBR600RR (it's now Euro 5 compliant) and the fact that the Hornet didn't get the big twin cylinder motor from the Africa Twin - in naming terms, since the 750 Hornet is a twin, that would have been more expected. Maybe we'll see a CBR750R based on the twin next year

[mangocrazy]

Since the writing is firmly on the wall for the end of the ICE, there's really not a lot of point in investing heavily into brand new designs...

I'd say that rumours of the death of the ICE in bikes are premature, unlike in cars. The big problem for EBs is weight, and that won't be solved any time soon. I'd be interested to see figures of EV market penetration for bikes compared to cars; I'd bet it's an order of magnitude smaller.

Paradoxically it would be a lot easier for me to run an electric bike, simply because I could get it off road, under cover and adjacent to a charging point. But quite frankly unless there is a transformational advance in the tech, I'll be sticking to ICE powered bikes for the rest of my days.

[The Spin Doctor]

Since the writing is firmly on the wall for the end of the ICE, there's really not a lot of point in investing heavily into brand new designs...

I'd say that rumours of the death of the ICE in bikes are premature, unlike in cars. The big problem for EBs is weight, and that won't be solved any time soon. I'd be interested to see figures of EV market penetration for bikes compared to cars; I'd bet it's an order of magnitude smaller.

Paradoxically it would be a lot easier for me to run an electric bike, simply because I could get it off road, under cover and adjacent to a charging point. But quite frankly unless there is a transformational advance in the tech, I'll be sticking to ICE powered bikes for the rest of my days.

Running a pre-reg'd bike is one thing, but the UK and EU have a date on the statute books for the end of ICE-powered two-wheelers sales - it's 2035 *. After that, no more vehicles with anything other than zero tail pipe emissions (which rules out hydrogen ICEs incidentally, since they produce NOx via the burning of a fuel in air)

The problem is less the excessive weight, than our perception of what a motorcycle needs to be to do a job.

There are perfectly functional electric motorcycles around with good acceleration and a top speed of over 100 mph, which have a useable mixed-bag riding range of nudging 100 miles. I've ridden one. The Zero. And it's not THAT much heavier than my not-much-quicker XJ6.

The problem's charging it. I don't have a garage (Victorian terrace). I could charge it in the front garden, but frankly I'd be a bit worried about security. Fix that issue, and If I could also 100% guarantee getting it on a charger for 45 mins and going from 20 to 80% charge whilst I am sat having lunch with the trainee, I'd happily take a Zero for my bike training work - I rarely do much more than 135 miles on a home-to-home session.

Even for longer two-up trips, the Zeros would do the biz if I didn't want to blitz from Blighty to Biarritz in one riding session on the autoroute. Take a more leisurely day - full charge to start, morning coffee, lunch, afternoon bun = 200 miles of range, no problem. Do that on a nice twisty route and that's a pretty much full day's riding. But none of the places I am likely to stop for a cuppa have charging points.

So the issue's not the electric bike so much as the 'filling the tank' experience and that's being let down by the energy industry and government dithering over support for EVs.

* Assuming more political shenanigans doesn't push it back at the last minute.

[mangocrazy]

OK, so for you the main issue may not be weight but for me it is, or rather it's inextricably linked to your concern - range anxiety. Give it a decent range (200-300 genuine miles between charges) and the weight would be prohibitive. These days unless a bike is below 200kg wet weight I don't even consider it. Ideally I'd like a bike with a wet weight of 170-180kg, making about 90-100bhp, but I can live with 190-200kg for the moment). Getting an electric bike with a decent range and a maximum weight of 200kg is like looking for a unicorn.

Quite frankly the sunset date of 2035 for ICE vehicles doesn't bother me greatly. For a start I think it will be pushed back, as the infrastructure won't be there and people simply aren't drinking the EV Kool-Aid in large enough quantities. Secondly, by 2035 I'll be over 85 and if I'm still riding bikes will grab one of the last ICE models to see me through to my dotage (if it hasn't already arrived by then).

[KungFooBob]

When you see them side by side like this, you have to wonder wtf Honda were thinking.

[The Spin Doctor]

OK, so for you the main issue may not be weight but for me it is, or rather it's inextricably linked to your concern - range anxiety. Give it a decent range (200-300 genuine miles between charges) and the weight would be prohibitive. These days unless a bike is below 200kg wet weight I don't even consider it. Ideally I'd like a bike with a wet weight of 170-180kg, making about 90-100bhp, but I can live with 190-200kg for the moment). Getting an electric bike with a decent range and a maximum weight of 200kg is like looking for a unicorn.

Quite frankly the sunset date of 2035 for ICE vehicles doesn't bother me greatly. For a start I think it will be pushed back, as the infrastructure won't be there and people simply aren't drinking the EV Kool-Aid in large enough quantities. Secondly, by 2035 I'll be over 85 and if I'm still riding bikes will grab one of the last ICE models to see me through to my dotage (if it hasn't already arrived by then).

You can get the range, but not range and power. Though I am not sure why you need 90 hp. 30 hp is enough to push a bike the wrong side of 100 mph, and the instant torque from an electric motor delivers the thrust that people often confuse with power.

Meanwhile... from this morning's Elevenses webcast...

"What sets the Evoke 6061-GT apart is - according to the spec sheet - the biggest battery pack of any electric motorcycle on the market today. It's a truly massive 30-kilowatt-hour unit that promises up to 660 km or 410 miles of range on a single charge.

That is 'city range' usually calculated at an 50 km/h (31 mph) average speed. But for mixed riding, Evoke put the range as 497 km (308 miles), whilst highway speeds bring the range down to a still very impressive 335 km (205 miles).

What's more Evoke claims the new battery can be charged to 80 percent in just 30 minutes via a DC fast-charger.

The bike is fitted with a 90-kilowatt about 121 horsepower mid-mounted electric motor said to deliver instantaneous response right across the rev range to the machine's top speed of just over 140 mph. Zero to 60 takes 4.4 seconds."

Heavy? Slightly lighter than the Suzuki Boulevard M109 AKA Intruder M1800R at 320 kg - that's 705 lbs.

Orders at $25k.

[mangocrazy]

"What sets the Evoke 6061-GT apart is - according to the spec sheet - the biggest battery pack of any electric motorcycle on the market today. It's a truly massive 30-kilowatt-hour unit that promises up to 660 km or 410 miles of range on a single charge.

That is 'city range' usually calculated at an 50 km/h (31 mph) average speed. But for mixed riding, Evoke put the range as 497 km (308 miles), whilst highway speeds bring the range down to a still very impressive 335 km (205 miles).

So when you get down to the nitty gritty it has a range of 200 miles. Perhaps.

The bike is fitted with a 90-kilowatt about 121 horsepower mid-mounted electric motor said to deliver instantaneous response right across the rev range to the machine's top speed of just over 140 mph. Zero to 60 takes 4.4 seconds."

So performance probably on a par with an MT-09 or similar. More than adequate.

Heavy? Slightly lighter than the Suzuki Boulevard M109 AKA Intruder M1800R at 320 kg - that's 705 lbs.

Orders at $25k.

Which is where the whole proposition just implodes. 320kg? Are you f'n kidding me?

Like I was saying - you can have range and mega-weight or you can have an acceptable kerb weight and no range. You simply can't have both acceptable range and weight. Equivalence to ICE motorbikes is decades away, if it ever arrives.

[ChrisW]

Am I being too harsh or does the number on the front of the '916' Panigale look a bt like two strips of insulation tape?

[Count Steer]

Lovin' the strap line in the background. "The Power of Legacy'.

Put that through Google translate. 'leveraging some stuff that happened a few years ago'.

[ChrisW]

Moto Morini Corsara Sport 750 v-twin - looks lovely! Really fresh, innovative styling.

[ChrisW]

Lovin' the strap line in the background. "The Power of Legacy'.

Put that through Google translate. 'leveraging some stuff that happened a few years ago'.

You'd like MCN's video on the 990 Duke - the backdrop has 'NO BULLSHIT' written on it but the nice chap from KTM spends most of the duration obscuring the 'NO'

[Rockburner]

OK, so for you the main issue may not be weight but for me it is, or rather it's inextricably linked to your concern - range anxiety. Give it a decent range (200-300 genuine miles between charges) and the weight would be prohibitive. These days unless a bike is below 200kg wet weight I don't even consider it. Ideally I'd like a bike with a wet weight of 170-180kg, making about 90-100bhp, but I can live with 190-200kg for the moment). Getting an electric bike with a decent range and a maximum weight of 200kg is like looking for a unicorn.

Quite frankly the sunset date of 2035 for ICE vehicles doesn't bother me greatly. For a start I think it will be pushed back, as the infrastructure won't be there and people simply aren't drinking the EV Kool-Aid in large enough quantities. Secondly, by 2035 I'll be over 85 and if I'm still riding bikes will grab one of the last ICE models to see me through to my dotage (if it hasn't already arrived by then).

You can get the range, but not range and power. Though I am not sure why you need 90 hp. 30 hp is enough to push a bike the wrong side of 100 mph, and the instant torque from an electric motor delivers the thrust that people often confuse with power.

Meanwhile... from this morning's Elevenses webcast...

"What sets the Evoke 6061-GT apart is - according to the spec sheet - the biggest battery pack of any electric motorcycle on the market today. It's a truly massive 30-kilowatt-hour unit that promises up to 660 km or 410 miles of range on a single charge.

That is 'city range' usually calculated at an 50 km/h (31 mph) average speed. But for mixed riding, Evoke put the range as 497 km (308 miles), whilst highway speeds bring the range down to a still very impressive 335 km (205 miles).

What's more Evoke claims the new battery can be charged to 80 percent in just 30 minutes via a DC fast-charger.

The bike is fitted with a 90-kilowatt about 121 horsepower mid-mounted electric motor said to deliver instantaneous response right across the rev range to the machine's top speed of just over 140 mph. Zero to 60 takes 4.4 seconds."

Heavy? Slightly lighter than the Suzuki Boulevard M109 AKA Intruder M1800R at 320 kg - that's 705 lbs.

https://www.evokemotorcycles.com/6061-gt

In the video it looks like it was knocked up in my shed...

Orders at $25k.

HOW F***ING MUCH???

[Count Steer]

Lovin' the strap line in the background. "The Power of Legacy'.

Put that through Google translate. 'leveraging some stuff that happened a few years ago'.

You'd like MCN's video on the 990 Duke - the backdrop has 'NO BULLSHIT' written on it but the nice chap from KTM spends most of the duration obscuring the 'NO'

Meanwhile, BMW are pondering on if they can eliminate the bloke that stands in front of the 'motorad' bit of 'motorad macht frei' and Kawasaki were wondering whether calling their latest motorcycle the Ki61 would go down well in the USA.

Legacy...doesn't count for much when it comes to motorcycles.

[Noggin]

Just found out that a mate is there (arrived last night). So, any bikes you want photos of ??!!

XSR900GP

I have asked for pics from all angles - not heard from him and he's not been online since lunchtime - probably propping up the bar!!

Will post the; if he sends me any

[mangocrazy]

Moto Morini Corsara Sport 750 v-twin - looks lovely! Really fresh, innovative styling.

I really like the look of that. Not sure my wrists/back/knees would agree though...

[The Spin Doctor]

Which is where the whole proposition just implodes. 320kg? Are you f'n kidding me?

Like I was saying - you can have range and mega-weight or you can have an acceptable kerb weight and no range. You simply can't have both acceptable range and weight. Equivalence to ICE motorbikes is decades away, if it ever arrives.

I don't disagree that 700 lbs is a lump.

but...

...equivalence to ICE motorcycles? We can have it now if we redefine what we expect to get out of a bike!

50-odd hp was a proper motorcycle back in the mid-70s

60-odd hp was pretty wild.

70-odd hp was only for experts

What did Ted Simon ride around the world on?

My brother rode from London, across the Sahara and down the length of Africa (minus S Africa because of border issues) and back to Mombasa on a 26 hp 250 single