Crash Detectives

[The Spin Doctor]

"When a motorcyclist dies in a crash at a busy city junction, the race is on to find out how the collision unfolded."

Sorry Mate I Didn't See You?

Or looked but could not see the bike?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... -episode-3

[Nordboy]

Or the motorcyclist was riding at over twice the speed limit, like a bit of a knob?

[Lutin]

Very interesting programme - in fact all the programmes in the series have been so.

The use of security camera video is clearly becoming very important in crash investigation - and dash cam video as well. Just goes to show how prevalent security/dash cameras have become.

[Nordboy]

Very interesting programme - in fact all the programmes in the series have been so.

The use of security camera video is clearly becoming very important in crash investigation - and dash cam video as well. Just goes to show how prevalent security/dash cameras have become.

Not just crash investigation, it's now a major part of serious assault/ rapes/ murder, all top end offences. Ring doorbells and cameras are proving to be a massive evidence source.

They're literally plotting victim and suspects routes and timings via home cctv. They have specialist/ dedicated officers for this task in major crime depts now.

[Cousin Jack]

How does that square with the GDPR stuff? I thought you needed specific permission/licence to record public areas?

[MrLongbeard]

How does that square with the GDPR stuff? I thought you needed specific permission/licence to record public areas?

Nah, no expectation of privacy in public spaces.

[Cousin Jack]

I was asking because a neighbour has CCTV, and some prominent notices warning of this. And having dealt with the Data Commissioner they do like to grab licence fees if they can.

[The Spin Doctor]

Or the motorcyclist was riding at over twice the speed limit, like a bit of a knob?

I was trying not to give too much away...

...but here's a question to ponder.

What if... instead of the road being a 30 urban limit with pedestrian crossings and driveway, the road had been a 60 rural road with a country lane ahead?

Would the rider still have been riding 'like a bit of a knob'? Would our post-hoc evaluation of the events change?

[The Spin Doctor]

I was asking because a neighbour has CCTV, and some prominent notices warning of this. And having dealt with the Data Commissioner they do like to grab licence fees if they can.

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/domes ... v-systems/

[Nordboy]

Or the motorcyclist was riding at over twice the speed limit, like a bit of a knob?

I was trying not to give too much away...

...but here's a question to ponder.

What if... instead of the road being a 30 urban limit with pedestrian crossings and driveway, the road had been a 60 rural road with a country lane ahead?

Would the rider still have been riding 'like a bit of a knob'? Would our post-hoc evaluation of the events change?

Ok, so if the situation was the same on a 60mph road, then the bike would be travelling in excess of 120mph. For me, the outcome would be the same, but the car driver or others may have also been seriously injured or killed, purely from the momentum of the bike.

It was dark, the car driver sees headlights, which as you know, makes it very difficult to evaluate someones speed. So, being a 30mph area, or any speed limit area for that matter, most drivers assume that the bike was approaching at or around that speed. then make the appropriate judgement, whether to pull out or not. But you know that already?

Speed in itself doesn't necessarily kill, inappropriate speed however can often kill.

I would often, in the course of my job ride at over double the speed limits. One possible difference is, that I'd know when NOT to ride at those speeds. That skill is just as important as the ability to ride a public road at speed.

[The Spin Doctor]

Ok, so if the situation was the same on a 60mph road, then the bike would be travelling in excess of 120mph. For me, the outcome would be the same, but the car driver or others may have also been seriously injured or killed, purely from the momentum of the bike.

Not quite what I was getting at but yes, if you scale up the rider's very bad choice of speed, that's likely the outcome. The impact in the show, even after the rider was braking for quite some distance by the length of the rear-wheel skid, shifted the car a metre sideways.

It was dark, the car driver sees headlights, which as you know, makes it very difficult to evaluate someones speed. So, being a 30mph area, or any speed limit area for that matter, most drivers assume that the bike was approaching at or around that speed. then make the appropriate judgement, whether to pull out or not. But you know that already?

That's another good point - we often assume that with less traffic around late at night, it's safe to ride a bit faster. There's already evidence that drivers don't accurately estimate a motorcycle's speed of approach (the 'looked, saw and misjudged' error I talk about in Science Of Being Seen) and there's more evidence that motorcyclists travel just a little quicker than other traffic anyway... add a bit more at night and suddenly everything becomes more difficult - less time for the driver to see the machine, a greater chance of misjudging speed and distance when they do see it, and more kinetic energy for the rider to shed leading to longer braking distances if it is possible to stop / higher impact speeds if it isn't.

Speed in itself doesn't necessarily kill, inappropriate speed however can often kill.

Usually because either the other road user OR ourselves OR both of us don't have time to avoid the crash

I would often, in the course of my job ride at over double the speed limits. One possible difference is, that I'd know when NOT to ride at those speeds. That skill is just as important as the ability to ride a public road at speed.

That's really what I was driving (!) at.

Many of us wouldn't bat an eyelid at doing 65 mph around a gentle curve like that on a rural road...

...but there are minor roads, farm access tracks, driveways all around corners just like this one. How many riders actually factor in the 'can I stop again' question when they attack a corner?

Useful insights! Ta