House moving process... the chain

[dern]

I've managed to get to my mid-fifties without being involved in a chain of house buying but it looks like this might be the first time. The questions are pretty basic really...

We've found a house that we like but we haven't put our house on the market yet. We're getting a valuation done this week and as long as it's not miles outside our expectations we'll be putting it on the market. Do I have to wait for an offer on our place before I put in an offer on the place we want to buy?

Do you put in an offer subject to a survey and then commit once the survey doesn't find anything we're worried about? There won't be a mortgage as we're moving 'sideways' in to a house of (subject to valuation) the same value.

Moving forward quite a long way in the process... does everyone in the chain move on the same day or is it staggered? I have 2 cars, 2 vans and 6 motorbikes to shift a couple of hundred miles so I'm not sure of the logistics of doing that in a day. If I need to employ a company to move them I'll add that to the cost.

Thanks.

[dern]

We had to have a solid offer on the place we were selling and/or provide evidence of actually having the money in the bank to pay the difference (or all) of the house we wanted to put an offer on.
Some estate agents were stricter on this than others, we weren't even allowed to view some properties until I'd emailed over the evidence that I could afford to buy it.

That I didn't realise but it makes complete sense from the perspective of the seller I guess. I think that where we're moving to is a lot quieter for house sales than where we are so it still might work out but we've found plenty of houses we like there so should be good.

Putting the stuff in storage might be an option but renting would be more difficult as we've got dogs. Hopefully it won't come to that.

Thanks for the info.

[dern]

We'll be entirely dependant on selling our house as we won't have a mortgage for the new place so no mortgage offer letter to show them. I'll get our house on the market and start seeing what the expectations of the seller's are at that time. If we have to wait for an offer on our place that's no problem.

[Mussels]

We engaged a local IFA to find a mortgage so whenever estate agents got nosy we'd point them to the IFA who would confirm it was in budget.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

We did a same day sell/move/buy 19 years ago, it was stressful but worked out, but we'd agreed a sale on the place we were living in before we made an offer on the place we were buying

[DefTrap]

Apparently they get house viewing tourists, i.e. people that just like to go around viewing other people's houses with no intention to buy.

My 'rents used to do this sort of thing back in the day, in that they hadn't bothered seriously considering moving before they viewed, they were just being nosey about what they could afford if that pay-rise/bonus/promotion came off sort of thing.. Sometimes a drive-by isn't enough and we all know how photos can be made to lie. Not so bad these days when you have those walk-through videos I spose.

I quite like moving, fantastic opportunity to declutter and I like organising things. It never occurs to me that other people in the chain might cock it up for me, so maybe I've just been lucky.

As for moving bikes, I managed to persuade my moving-man to throw a few of my semi-roadworthy projects in the back of his lorry. But this was a while ago, and he was very much on the 'geezer' end of the moving-man market.

[Horse]

So we chose to sell up, put all our stuff into temp storage, move out, and then move into the new place a few weeks after moving out of the old place.
Trying to coordinate same day moves was too stressful, so it seemed easier - although of course you need somewhere to stay in the interim.

Sis-i-Law did something similar, although they were buying when sales were brisk.

Sold up, moved into rented (moving into a touristy area, so out of season meant availability).

It meant they had funds available and could be located local to properties when they came to market, so make a quick offer.

[dern]

As an aside, many of the houses I'm looking at have pictures of Yaks in them, wtf is going on? Did I miss the yak memo?

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[cheb]

That's no yak, it's a Highland cow.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I believe you have to have your house advertised for sale in order to make an offer, if the purchase of the new house requires funds from the sale of your existing house.

FWIW I wouldn't go into a chain again and haven't for my last two moves. I'd rather move into a rented place for a bit, sell my house and then be a cash buyer. It means moving twice and spending money on rent but you get a better deal as a cash buyer and overall less stress and risk IMO. As others above have suggested.

[KungFooBob]

In my brain l, while reading this thread the F1 music is playing.

[dern]

I believe you have to have your house advertised for sale in order to make an offer, if the purchase of the new house requires funds from the sale of your existing house.

FWIW I wouldn't go into a chain again and haven't for my last two moves. I'd rather move into a rented place for a bit, sell my house and then be a cash buyer. It means moving twice and spending money on rent but you get a better deal as a cash buyer and overall less stress and risk IMO. As others above have suggested.

This is slightly more difficult for us as we have two large dogs. It might be possible but we'll see.

[Greenman]

We'll be entirely dependant on selling our house as we won't have a mortgage for the new place so no mortgage offer letter to show them. I'll get our house on the market and start seeing what the expectations of the seller's are at that time. If we have to wait for an offer on our place that's no problem.

Then yes, I've be surprised if any seller accepts a formal offer on their place until your sale appears to be comfortably in the bag.
And even then, they'll be given the details of your circumstances and in the event of multiple offers they'll choose the one that seems most solid.

Your ideal scenario is a first time buyer or someone with cash that buys yours.

We had multiple offers but stuck with the first one, even though we were being offered 10% (and an offer of more) over the asking price by subsequent buyers.
Mainly because I'm not a dick and wouldn't pull the rug out from the bloke I shook hands with*, but also because they were first time buyers, not in any chain, had put down a big deposit and unless something biblical happened then they wouldn't pull out.

*Gazumping should be outlawed, both me and our buyer were fortunate that I could afford to turn down the gazumpers, but if I'd have been desperate for more money then it would have been hard to refuse.

Me and a friend nearly got Gazumped when i bought my first place. We couldn't afford are our own places so thought we would buy a place together to make some money so we could then both buy a house independently.

The current owners we're moving to a boat and already had it bought and ready to move into/on, but 1 week before exchanging contracts they advised their solicitors to tell us that they no longer wanted to move onto the boat and we're going to pull out of the sale.

Now, back then we had very very little money, if they had of done this then we would of been in a position where neither of us would have been able to move out at all, not even together as we would of lost all the money for solicitors etc from the gazumpted sale.

We sent them a nice letter (i had other less tactful ideas myself) stating the position we we're in and they decided to go along with the sale, which was a good choice for their health as i would of lost the plot and done something silly if they fucked us over.

I had a similar experience after selling my flat and moving into where i am now. The house i wanted to buy before i bought my current place was owned by some sort of company, they literally pulled out about 2 weeks before exchange, which was fucking annoying, they said they had decided to keep the house as an asset for the company.

People that do this are scum, they could of made this decision well before the exchange date thus meaning i wouldn't of had to spend out any money on solicitors etc, luckily back then i was in quite a good financial position and it didn't stop me from buying the place i am in now, they kind of done me a favour tbh as the place i am in now is much nicer and the area suits me a lot better.

The UK should introduce the escrow scheme like they have in the US, so that you cannot pull out of the sale!

[Yorick]

We'll be entirely dependant on selling our house as we won't have a mortgage for the new place so no mortgage offer letter to show them. I'll get our house on the market and start seeing what the expectations of the seller's are at that time. If we have to wait for an offer on our place that's no problem.

Then yes, I've be surprised if any seller accepts a formal offer on their place until your sale appears to be comfortably in the bag.
And even then, they'll be given the details of your circumstances and in the event of multiple offers they'll choose the one that seems most solid.

Your ideal scenario is a first time buyer or someone with cash that buys yours.

We had multiple offers but stuck with the first one, even though we were being offered 10% (and an offer of more) over the asking price by subsequent buyers.
Mainly because I'm not a dick and wouldn't pull the rug out from the bloke I shook hands with*, but also because they were first time buyers, not in any chain, had put down a big deposit and unless something biblical happened then they wouldn't pull out.

*Gazumping should be outlawed, both me and our buyer were fortunate that I could afford to turn down the gazumpers, but if I'd have been desperate for more money then it would have been hard to refuse.

Me and a friend nearly got Gazumped when i bought my first place. We couldn't afford are our own places so thought we would buy a place together to make some money so we could then both buy a house independently.

The current owners we're moving to a boat and already had it bought and ready to move into/on, but 1 week before exchanging contracts they advised their solicitors to tell us that they no longer wanted to move onto the boat and we're going to pull out of the sale.

Now, back then we had very very little money, if they had of done this then we would of been in a position where neither of us would have been able to move out at all, not even together as we would of lost all the money for solicitors etc from the gazumpted sale.

We sent them a nice letter (i had other less tactful ideas myself) stating the position we we're in and they decided to go along with the sale, which was a good choice for their health as i would of lost the plot and done something silly if they fucked us over.

I had a similar experience after selling my flat and moving into where i am now. The house i wanted to buy before i bought my current place was owned by some sort of company, they literally pulled out about 2 weeks before exchange, which was fucking annoying, they said they had decided to keep the house as an asset for the company.

People that do this are scum, they could of made this decision well before the exchange date thus meaning i wouldn't of had to spend out any money on solicitors etc, luckily back then i was in quite a good financial position and it didn't stop me from buying the place i am in now, they kind of done me a favour tbh as the place i am in now is much nicer and the area suits me a lot better.

The UK should introduce the escrow scheme like they have in the US, so that you cannot pull out of the sale!

Over here you pay 10% deposit, both parties.
If either party pulls out, you lose the lot.

[Count Steer]

We'll be entirely dependant on selling our house as we won't have a mortgage for the new place so no mortgage offer letter to show them. I'll get our house on the market and start seeing what the expectations of the seller's are at that time. If we have to wait for an offer on our place that's no problem.

We had multiple offers but stuck with the first one, even though we were being offered 10% (and an offer of more) over the asking price by subsequent buyers.
Mainly because I'm not a dick and wouldn't pull the rug out from the bloke I shook hands with*, but also because they were first time buyers, not in any chain, had put down a big deposit and unless something biblical happened then they wouldn't pull out.

Same. I may be old fashioned but if you handshake on a deal, the deal is done.

(They seem to have got this far better sorted in Scotland).

Happily, the bloke of the couple we bought from seemed to share my attitude and (I've probably mentioned this before) when we were sat with the removals people and all our worldly goods in the van, waiting for the final nod from the solicitors that the funds have gone through he chucked me the keys and said ''Yeah, it's going to happen, get in there'.

Previous move was easy-squeezy....we swapped homes...and saved a slab on Stamp Duty (not that it mattered really because the company was paying but we didn't find out that on house swaps the only Stamp Duty payable is on the difference in price until about 6 months later when we got the refund). We even used the same removals company van. We pitched up with our stuff and emptied it, he loaded up in the same van and off they went to the glories that are NW3.

[cheb]

This may be of interest to those who wish to read about the Scottish system. C&P from from a document my solicitors send out. The other 6 pages are available on request. One thing to note, it's possible to still be discussing the missives on the day of completion so it's not entirely foolproof. I know this for a fact as I did on my last but one house purchase. It was a rush job, 5 weeks from offer to keys in hand, mostly to beat a tax increase deadline.

Missives – the Legal Contract

In Scotland the contract for sale and purchase of property is known as “the missives”. The missives comprise the formal letters (the offer and the subsequent acceptance letters) which pass between the selling solicitor and the purchasing solicitor on behalf of their respective clients. These letters are signed by the solicitors as agents for their clients so normally you will not require to sign the missives as we will do this for you. We only do this after discussion with you and after taking your instructions. We will send you copies of the missives for your information.

It is important to realise that a legally binding contract only exists once all the terms of the missives have been finally agreed and the missives have been concluded. Receipt of an acceptance of an offer does not mean that missives have been concluded. That would only be true if the acceptance of the offer contained no qualifications to the terms of the offer, but that is extremely rare. Almost without exception the acceptance of the offer will contain qualifications (and is indeed commonly referred to as a “qualified acceptance”). With the acceptance of the offer the selling solicitor will often also send the title deeds to the purchasing solicitor and it is at this point that the purchaser and their solicitor will need to examine and discuss the terms of the deeds and the missive letters to see if everything is acceptable, or if any matters arise then further qualifications to the missives may require to be made.

We will keep in touch with you during the process of conclusion of missives as we will need to take your instructions regarding each missive letter.

While it is desirable to try and conclude missives quickly it is also important to check that at this stage that everything is satisfactory. The process of conclusion of missives can therefore typically take several weeks. You will appreciate that if there are only around four weeks between the date of the offer and the date of entry stated in the offer, that conclusion of missives may not be possible until only shortly before the date of entry. For this reason, and to allow time for the mortgage lender to issue loan papers and funds to be made available, we recommend that the date of entry be at least six weeks after the date of the offer. We appreciate that for practical reasons this is not always possible and we will always do our best to assist when time scales are tight. We reserve the right, however, to make an additional charge in such cases.

IMPORTANT

When missives are concluded they comprise a legal contract the terms of which are binding on both parties and the price and the date of entry have been finalised and agreed. Any party in breach of contract may be liable to pay for the costs and loss incurred by the other party.

Purchasing
This means you must come up with the price on the agreed date of entry. Failure to do so means you will immediately be in breach of contract and potentially liable to pay interest to the seller. You may have a certain number of days (typically 14 or 21) to come up with the price but after that the seller may be entitled to sell the property to another party and claim all interest and damages from you. You will be liable to pay any shortfall on the price when the seller eventually does get the property sold and you will have to pay interest from the original date to the new date plus you will be liable to the seller for all their additional costs including re-marketing. It is VERY IMPORTANT therefore that before you conclude missives for a purchase transaction you are certain you have funding in place. If, for example, this depends on (i) a sale of your own property and you have not yet concluded missives for your own sale, or (ii) you obtaining a loan from a mortgage lender but this has not yet been confirmed, then you should consider NOT concluding missives for a purchase, even if the settlement date seems a long time away.

Selling
You need to have vacated the property and removed all your belongings from the property by the date of entry stated in the missives. You must leave the property in good condition and ensure there are sufficient keys available to hand over. You also need to have signed the Disposition in favour of the purchaser and any other deeds required by the missives. If you are not in a position to settle on the agreed date of entry then you may be liable to meet any costs incurred by the purchaser as a result of your breach of contract.

[cheb]

That was with a willing buyer, willing seller, no financiers and no estate agents involved.

[Count Steer]

@cheb That's a bit more complicated than is generally known. Always thought an offer was binding.

[DefTrap]

I'm not sure there is a simple, and fair, way of protecting all parties from property sales going bad. I've heard of all sorts of systems applied across the world - they all have their drawbacks. Put more rules in and the primary beneficiary is a bunch of property solicitors rubbing their hands with glee about it.

[cheb]

Until fairly recently the solicitor would charge you to put an offer in. If it wasn't accepted, oh well, kerchingggggg.

Ditto the property surveyor.